Episode 27: Fight the good fight every day.
Ayesha Tariq has always been exceptional.
From being one of the very few admitted into Standard Chartered’s graduate program to getting promoted AND relocated to a plum destination to never having had to apply for a job to leaving a big bank for entrepreneurship to raising a child as a single parent, she has had an interesting journey where she always stood out and hasn’t flinched from taking bold steps. Ayesha is also remarkably pragmatic, authentic and self-aware.
I talk to her about the challenges facing women in finance, the upsides of networking, navigating the CFA program, leadership lessons, dysfunctional work-places and career tips.
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Binod Shankar:
This is Binod Shankar and you’re listening to the real finance mentor podcast from the realfinancementor.com. The real finance mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers in finance, CFA and more. Now you might think, why this podcast? Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your financial career, by making it, one: relatable. I mean this is not theoretical stuff. We zero-in on the critical, practical issues. Number two: authentic. No bullshit, no side-stepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three: insightful. Take a Chartered accountant and a CFA charter holder, add 17-plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10-plus years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full time CFA training. Add speaking, mentoring, cycling, mountaineering and other endurance activities, and that’s me! Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor, or as I call it: RFM.
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Binod:
Hi everyone, this is Binod Shankar here with the Real Finance Mentor podcast, bringing you yet another episode of this unique podcast that’s focused on inspiration and insight for your careers, specifically in finance.
So as you know, with every episode, I bring a guest who has gone through an interesting background in terms of education, work experience, career achievements, cultural background, and this episode is no different.
Today I'm going to be talking to Ayesha Tariq. Ayesha is a CFA charter holder, who started her career as a corporate banker in Standard Chartered Bangladesh. And then she moved to the United Arab Emirates in 2006. She then moved to a regional bank before becoming the Treasury head of a local group and finally, a consultant now working with a regional bank on syndications. She's a single parent who has had a career in finance over the last 17 years. I must say, Ayesha wrote this introduction herself, and it is characteristically very modest. And you'll understand why I say that once I start talking to her, and we discover more about her experiences, her views and her career.
So welcome to the show.
Ayesha:
Thank you Binod, thank you for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here.
Binod:
Thank you. It's uncommon, Ayesha, to find many women in your industry, banking. Tell me about the key challenges as a woman in banking, both as an employee, and now as an entrepreneur, and how you dealt with this?
Ayesha:
Sure. I think a big challenge that I faced is the need to overcompensate. So, as a woman, I've always felt that I've needed to work a little bit harder to prove myself, no matter how smart I may be. I think as women, we are always trying to make up for what may be perceived as our shortcomings, like having a child or managing a home. So, for example, I think twice before taking a day off to care for my sick child. However, I've noticed that men don't necessarily have to think that way. So if they want to take time off, when they're sick, it's no big deal. Whereas I've always felt that I'd be criticized for not making work my priority. I've actually heard people say that women shouldn't be hired, because they may decide to start a family or because they may take more sick days. And I don't mind the hard work. Okay. But it's the disparity, which isn't really right.
I'd say another major challenge is being able to find the balance, the balance in your behavior, trying to be assertive, but not come off as aggressive. So if a woman is demanding, she automatically becomes aggressive. But if a man does it, he's just a go-getter. So it's almost as if you know, the world has decided that women need to act a certain way. You need to be meek, somewhat soft, you need to have a sweet temperament. And, of course, being too ambitious is somewhat of a sin. But fortunately for me, I come from a family of strong, accomplished women. My mom and Aunt are both doctors. My grandmother was a school teacher. And in my home, none of these things were even issues, right? So we were taught to be proper. We were taught to be decent. But there was no distinction between a boy or a girl. So in the beginning, all of this sort of baffled me, you know, how people behaved. But now I've learned to live with it. And I just shrug it off.
I'd say another big challenge that I still face is being second guessed. So whether it was as a banker, or later as a consultant, I think people don't readily want to take financial advice from a woman. And even if you have the experience and the knowledge, much of the time, I think, they don't even want to hear what you have to say. Because they just can't believe that you can know your stuff, that you can be that smart. Right. So you're just dismissed. And honestly, I'd say, this still really gets to me. I mean, it's difficult.
So, in reality, there's no way to completely overcome these challenges. You know, it takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, and sometimes it is very frustrating. But all I can say to the girls out there is, don't let it get to you too much. You should be proud of making it to where you are. And you should know that you have every right to be there. And take comfort in the fact that you're not alone. So just don't stop, fight the good fight every day. For example, just the other day, I was having a conversation with my daughter at home, and she told me, “Why do you talk about it being challenging? Being a woman has never stopped you from doing what you wanted to do”. And honestly, I have to say, this filled my heart with joy, because that's the world I want. where, people are just people. They're not a gender, they're not a race, and they're not a nationality.
Binod:
Which brings me, of course, to my next question, Ayesha, which is: when you look around, why is it that there are so few women in banking and finance, not just the senior levels, but even the junior entry levels, in almost every organization you can think of?
Ayesha:
Long hours for one. Okay, so as women, we have to look after the household. And the long hours just don't accommodate a balanced life outside work. So I, for example, have missed a lot of school events. And sometimes I feel a little sad that I've missed a lot of my child's life. So, you know, even when I was home, I was just too tired to cook or take her anywhere. And then I remember a time when I used to rush home at six o'clock, just to spend a few hours with her. And then I'd open my laptop again, and carry on working after she went to bed. So it is challenging. But I have to add here that saying that I'm a single parent is a bit unfair. Because I've been very fortunate to have my mother with me. As I said, She's a doctor, and she's still working. So she gets it. And she's always supported me, and no matter how long I've needed to be at work. So it's a big help when you have people who support you.
I think another reason is because finance is still a boy’s club, more so than many other professions. And I think it's a bit of a vicious cycle really, because there are fewer women, it makes it uncomfortable for the few women who are there, right. So it's almost like the men have their private jokes. And they generally act differently around the women. So many times I've walked into a room, and suddenly there will be silence. So I think it's just hard for us overall; women are constantly fighting to speak up. They're fighting for their salaries, they're fighting for their promotions. And in finance, particularly banking, it's very competitive. And I don't think women always win. We constantly undersell ourselves. So for example, we look at the job description, and we say, “Oh, I can only do 60% of this. So why bother applying”? So all of this makes it even more difficult for us to move up the ladder. So in the end, we have an idea that women don't do well in finance, and quite possibly, we get discouraged from even trying. And I have to tell you, I'm no different, by the way. I mean, I am a confident person, but even I've had my moments, you know, and even I've had my doubts. So even now, I think, I don't market myself as much as I could. So it's all work in progress for all of us. But I don't think that, that should hold us back.
Binod:
Interesting, what you said, Ayesha. Lots of research has been done on this topic of women's participation in finance and other industries and their external factors, as well as internal factors. And there's no denying the boy’s club and male dominated workplaces that deter advancement in many places. There's also no denying the fact that women, like you rightly said, undersell themselves. And there's some research done in the US, some years ago, which I still remember vividly, is that a man will stand for a public office, even if he has only even a 5% chance of winning. But a woman will only stand for the same public office, if she has at least a 50% chance of winning. As a result, men give it a shot, and sometimes they make it right. But as a result, women rarely give it a shot when they could have made it.
Ayesha:
Absolutely, I agree. I agree.
Binod:
Moving on from one interesting topic to another, which of course is close to my heart, which is the CFA program right. Now. You're, of course, a CFA charterholder Ayesha. Now, I'm curious, why did you enroll for the CFA program? And I say that because it's a niche qualification that's more relevant in asset management, wealth management, investment research, and not especially useful in corporate banking, which is one sector- the sector where you spent the maximum amount of time in your career. So, why?
Ayesha:
Yep. Well, good question. So, I think I’ve mentioned to you earlier that I joined the IG program at Standard Chartered, but I actually never wanted to be a banker. So I did my undergrad with a major in marketing. And I was all set to have a career in Unilever or Procter and Gamble, but then this program came up. And it was fantastic. So I got in without a reference. And I realized that I was one of the people chosen to represent the country. And so my journey in finance and banking began. But I always felt like there was a finance degree missing from my life. And then, later on, when I was in Standard Chartered Abu Dhabi, we did a few interesting transactions there, one of them being the dividend recap for Al Noor hospitals, which was the first of its kind in the region. And while I love corporate banking, I started to realize that there's a whole world out there, in banking and finance. There's so much more that can be done, and I wanted to explore that. So my answer to anything in this world is to hit the books. But in this case, I felt if I wanted to move into a career, around asset management, or portfolio management, I felt like a degree or a qualification would really help. And then, obviously, the best option was the CFA program. Why? I looked into the curriculum; it is well rounded, and it's well respected. It was also very, very convenient for me, because I got to study on my own time. And, I think the idea of having those three letters behind my name as a professional designation, I actually really liked that. And it was an important factor for me.
Binod:
Oh, well done. And of course, the CFA program is legendary, notorious shall I say, for being a grueling, multi-year marathon that can drain and strain, force you to make...push yourself beyond what you thought was possible. So my next question would be a question which I think lots of CFA candidates would benefit significantly from and that question is, what were your three biggest challenges while studying for the CFA exams? And how did you tackle these?
Ayesha:
Um, there were a few. So when I started many of the things that I was reading about, I hadn't encountered them in real life or I hadn't studied them before, like bonds, for example. And I have never been good at just blindly memorizing things. So figuring these things out on my own was a little bit tough. Especially because my aim was to actually learn something and not just to pass an exam. So, I suppose knowing you at that time would have been very helpful. But somehow I managed through.
I'd say the other challenge was definitely time. And I think, this is so for most CFA candidates. I had a demanding job. I had a family. So my study hours were between 10pm and midnight. And the way I managed this was never to break the chain. So, no matter how tired I was, I'd come home, I'd open my books, and even if it was for five minutes...and sometimes I realized that I'm just reading something and reading something, and I didn't understand a word of what's being said because my brain was just so tired and it wasn't functioning. But I just did what I could. And I carried on, and it worked out.
So I'd say the third challenge, and this is, I think, also quite a big one for many people, is motivation. Okay, so when you're already working, and you're making money, you sometimes question whether going through all of this is really worth it, because it is a lot of hard work. And you even wonder whether you’ll even make it. So, honestly, I didn't overcome it on my own. My mother, my daughter, and my dear friend, Fatima, these three- they were my constant source of encouragement. They kept cheering me on, until the very last day. And I'm very grateful for having people in my life who believe in me. And having that support system, I think is very, very important.
Binod:
I can identify with some of the three points you mentioned, especially the first point about it being difficult to figure out things on your own because you haven't applied it in real life at work. And that was my case, as well. I wasn't working in asset management or wealth management. So, right, sitting at home late in the evening, poring over your Schweser books, and trying to figure out the complexity of derivatives, which I used to hate, which I still hate, was not easy. But I definitely see that time management and motivation can be massively challenging, especially when you have a family and hectic schedule, and you're already successful at your career. So why bother?
Now let's move on (from academics, where you’re pretty good at) into a significant milestone in your career. That's when you got transferred from Standard Chartered Bangladesh, where you got in as an international graduate, IG program, one of the three to represent the country, itself a significant achievement. Transferred from Standard Chartered Bangladesh to Standard Chartered Abu Dhabi, and that too, with a promotion. Now, when we earlier had a conversation on this, you ascribed this move, this promotion to luck, Which I totally don't believe. I mean, you're undoubtedly bright enough to get into a major multinational bank in Bangladesh without a referral, and to be one of three is not luck. So I'm thinking there are other factors. So what are the three factors other than luck that played a big role, not just in this move Ayesha, but also generally in your corporate life?
Ayesha:
So it's a funny story, actually. So, after we spoke, when I think back, I actually later found out that one of the main reasons I got the job was because a senior person at the time had told the hiring manager that if he didn't hire me, he'd be making a big mistake. And I think when I told you this, you pointed out to me that this is the power of networking. And of course, you're right. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that I have always valued the power of relationships. I've never even actually applied for a job. I've always changed jobs because of people I know. So yes, I think, making the right impression and building relationships is very important, even if you don't keep in touch every day.
So, I think, the second thing that helped me was always being genuine. So one of the reasons I think I managed to form those relationships is by being honest and genuine. So, people know when you're faking, trust me, they just know. And I think that was also one of the reasons that I was chosen for the IG program. So it wasn't just about being smart, or how you present yourself, but also about how well you adjust with other people from all over the world. And you can’t do that if you're faking it.
The other thing I'd say was probably my eagerness to work in Abu Dhabi. 15 years ago, here was a city that people had hardly heard about, okay. And it was a place where I didn't know anyone. But I was willing to take that leap of faith. I don't think I have changed much since then. I am still open to new adventures, not mountain climbing, by the way, but adventures where, which will challenge my life, and which will drastically change my circumstances. So if you ask me, I'd say that I'm flexible...flexible and open to a challenge. Because honestly, I think there's no point in working unless you're excited about what you do.
Binod:
Yes, I mean, I definitely identify with the answer to the previous question Ayesha, because building relationships has been critical in my career as well. And people make the big difference. People hire people, they don't hire CVs, as you well know. So, that makes a difference. And your story is (I was thinking as you're speaking) particularly poignant in my case, because my mom went with me when I was a six year old young boy to Nigeria, 1000s of kilometers away, as a single mom. So, you come with your daughter from Bangladesh, to UAE, and my mom going from India to Nigeria, in the mid 70s. Strong parallels there, let's put it that way. And it takes a very strong woman to that as well.
Right, let's go and talk about something which is probably not something everyone wants to talk about, which is, bosses! Now, you've probably had a few bad bosses like most people. What are the three things that you learnt from your worst bosses, and equally importantly, how was that useful, later in corporate life for you?
Ayesha:
Well, thankfully, I haven't had that many bad bosses. But let's see if I can tell you about a few bad behaviors that I've sworn, that I would never do, okay? Firstly, never scold or shame a person in front of their juniors, but you completely undermine a person's credibility. I think difficult conversations should always take place in private, no matter what.
Second, never steal credit. And I think this happens quite often. Many bosses don't want to give their employees credit for their work, they want to look good. And somehow they manage to convince the senior management that it was all their doing. And I really don't understand what that's about. I mean, it always makes me so proud to see my juniors do well. And I take any opportunity to say so, because in the end, they are a reflection of my management skills and my teaching.
And lastly, I would say, never try to catch someone in a lie. This is a little bit of a weird one. And I don't think I even know what people are trying to accomplish with this. Let me give you an example. I had a boss, who was trying to get me to admit to something that I hadn't done. And then he threatened to have me confront my accuser. And of course, I had no problem with that. But it all became quite ugly, and in the end, he ended up looking quite silly. So I think it's just one of those very odd things that people do. But yeah, I think I'd say these three are things that I'd say, I'd never do.
Binod:
You were definitely lucky not to have any horrible bosses, but also quite self aware in, like you said, learning from what you must not do by observing certain bosses doing certain things. I particularly connect with your second point about never stealing credit, right? I have always been a strong believer in giving credit, whether it is front office, middle office or back office teams, making sure that those names were mentioned. Because they also played a part in making something happen, it's not just you. And it actually lifts their motivation, morale a lot when they hear the name mentioned in public.
In fact, talking about credit, I used to run, as you know, a financial training company. And as we grew, we used to hire more and more expert financial trainers, CFA charterholders. And sometimes, my students would come to me and say, talking about a batch in which another trainer, a trainer that I had hired, had performed brilliantly. And you'll come and say, he was good, he was probably better than you. And I was actually quite happy to hear that, because it meant that we had gone from being a single owner/owner managed/owner-run shop to more of a corporate undertaking, which was scalable, and respected. And I used to feel very happy that we now had a bigger bench of talent. And like you said, if you have a trainer that is motivated and performs well at his job, or an employee; that's a reflection of your skills as a manager as well.
Ayesha:
Yes, absolutely.
Binod:
‘That’s also fantastic
Ayesha:
You taught him well.
Binod:
Well, let's say he was hugely talented and smart and things like that, but it helps to have the right environment so that you know, those people can gloom as well.
Ayesha:
Yes. Right.
Binod:
Let's talk about the UAE and one big sector, which is banking and financial services. Now, big banks, with big brands, Ayesha, look like an attractive place to get a job. But in the GCC and probably in other parts of the world as well (because let's face it, bankers don't really rank right at the top in terms of the profession a child aspires to be in); but these banks have acquired a reputation for not exactly being the best places to work in, for someone who is smart and ambitious, and is sensitive to how they're treated. So why are such external appearances so deceptive? And more importantly, since you have worked with both multinational banks like Standard Chartered Bank and a big local bank, what are your top three health warnings for someone looking to work in banks in this region?
Ayesha:
It's a little unfortunate, but I think for some of the banks in the region, the approach is very hierarchical. So, the culture is driven down from the top. So if you are a junior employee, your word counts for nothing even if you've said something smart. So the default position is that titles are important. So it matters who's saying something, rather than what's being said. For example, you can almost never write an email directly to a senior manager without going through your immediate boss. And, in fact, you're not even really allowed to speak up or interact with very senior management. So if you are a very smart person and you don't have that exposure to the senior management, there's no way for you to be recognized unless your immediate boss pushes you to the forefront. So, this results in a culture of boss worship. Because it's about all you can really do to move up the ladder. And then learning and just being better becomes secondary.
I also think there's a lot of fear-mongering, and work is very target-driven; to the point where you'll do almost anything to book a client, just to keep your job, and this never ends well, never. In my first job at Standard Chartered, I've even made presentations directly to global heads, and that's a big deal. But that was the culture back then, it was an open door culture. You could approach anyone, and we will never stop you from interacting with the senior people. And this, I'll tell you, this builds confidence, and if you attend higher level meetings with senior management, it also helps you become a better leader and appreciate the roles that you will one day fill. So I think back then, there was a lot of emphasis on learning. And I'm really just very grateful that I got my start then, because it has made a big difference in my life.
Binod:
Absolutely, I think where you start your career has a huge impact on your later progress in your career, because you learn your leadership and management lessons from those who manage you, and your peers. And if that is set...those expectations and those principles are set right at the beginning of your career, then you have that mindset. So, it was fantastic that you got the IG break at Standard Chartered, Bangladesh, because then you had a good foundation.
And you could see what was a good culture and what was not.
Interestingly, I liked your mention of this phrase ‘Boss worship’. You've heard of hero worship, idol worship, “work is worship”, the first time (have I) heard of boss worship. I'll probably steal that phrase from you and use it elsewhere, with your permission. And I also remember, one reason why I left corporate life was, I distinctly remember this conversation that happened about a dozen years ago, before I set up Genesis, the financial training company, where my then boss in a GCC company, he told me, “Listen Binod, if you want to get ahead in this company, you have to keep the big boy happy, the big man happy”, and effectively, he actually said that. And that, of course, meant that I had to keep my boss happy. And that didn't necessarily mean that I had to keep him happy by working well, or delivering outcomes. It was more of, “you kiss my ass because I have to kiss somebody's ass, and there’s a whole ladder or chain of ass-kissing going up and down.
Now, let's now accentuate the positive. Talk about good bosses or great bosses. Now, we had an early conversation. I was really fascinated when you briefly mentioned why you quit Mashreq Bank, one of the region's largest financial institutions, for an unknown group to be their head of Treasury, and how much you loved that job that you took up and it apparently had a lot to do with the CEO of that relatively unknown group. Now, I am always fascinated by stories of inspirational leaders, especially if they come from the region, which to be quite frank, lacks inspirational leadership at the corporate level. Tell me three things that others can learn from his thinking.
Ayesha:
Ah, well, for two years, I worked for an exceptionally intelligent and hardworking person. And I have to say, I learned so much, so much, so much about managing investment, hospitality, real estate, and even equities. And yes, he had some great qualities, and I loved working for him. So for one, he trusted me to represent him. So not only did he take me along with him to meetings, but he sent me to meet a lot of very high level people on my own as well. I had a lot of autonomy in my work and how I arranged my life and my job. He just wanted results and he trusted me to get them for him. Second, I would say, and this is an important one, he always praised his people in public, and defended them, even if he didn't like what we did. So, if he had to be angry with us, for example, it could be in private, one on one, and almost never in front of other staff, and definitely never in front of anyone outside the company. So this was a very, very good quality. And finally, I would say he was very forward thinking. And in fact, if you brought a new idea to him, he would get so excited with the new idea. And all he cared about was whether the idea had merit. And if it did, what we could do to implement it. So he appreciated people who were smart and talented. And even though he himself was very intelligent, he had no problem listening to other people or learning from us. So yeah, I think these are it.
Binod:
It all goes back to what most people want from leaders, right Ayesha? I mean, you want to have autonomy, you want to be trusted, and respected. That's it right? And I think all these three points you mentioned, it's about trust and praise, and forward thinking and open mindedness, all speaks to those two, three things that I mentioned. And that's why people say, “people join companies and leave bosses”, precisely because of this dynamic that often happens.
Now, of course, I mean, everyone has regrets in life, career, education, etc, etc. So, this is now the regret question. So if you look back, Ayesha, on education, health, wealth, happiness, and other popular measures and indicators of career and life, what are your three biggest regrets looking back, and why?
Ayesha:
So look, when you asked me this earlier, I thought really hard about this question. And I couldn't find anything that I regret. And I think I made the best decision that I could, with what I knew at the time. So I don't really have that feeling of ‘the road not taken’. But I think there are a few things that I could have probably done a bit differently. And I'm trying to make up for them now. So for one, I think I wish I'd been less absorbed with work, and spent a little bit more time on life outside of work, like pursuing my writing, or my painting. These are things that I used to do before I joined my corporate life. And it's okay, I mean, I feel that I've missed it. But I'm trying to make up for it now. And I've started writing again. And I suppose it's not too late. But I wish I hadn't given it up for so long.
I also wish that I could say no more often. And sometimes I don't say no. And I end up taking on too much for myself. And I really can't manage. I never say no to extra work or helping someone. And that often comes at the cost of my own sanity and my own well being. So I think sometimes we all need to learn how to slow things down a little bit. And I'm trying to do that now. And I'm trying to find my Zen.
I also wish I'd be better at marketing myself, okay. So this is more of an ongoing challenge. I think we've discussed this a little bit as well. And I think the avenues now are so much easier. You have all these mediums to actually have your story out there and to be able to reach people. And life is primarily led online now. And I don't think I use social media to my advantage. But it's probably the easiest way to make a difference anymore. So I guess, regardless of the good or bad, I think I've learned a lot from my experiences, and it shaped me to become the person that I am. So I am quite happy with my life really. And the only thing is, I think I just focus on what's ahead of me.
Binod:
I liked what you said. One particular phrase that stuck in my mind, which is, “I made the best decision I could, with what I knew then”. I think it's a very insightful statement, because I myself sometimes wished I’d not done something or I had done something. But then like you said, if you think about what your state of mind or what your knowledge was, at that point in time, when you made that decision, you didn't know those things that you know now. So, you couldn't have made the right decision. So it's an interesting statement that you made.
And yes, in terms of marketing yourself, I think we've talked about it. I think you are quite articulate and engaging, and genuine; (I think) three qualities that really will connect with lots of people. I think you definitely should be out there. You have a blog (which you haven't talked about) on substack, which you (I think) write on a weekly basis, about financial markets. And you're doing that more and more often on LinkedIn. So I think we'll hopefully see more of
your writing out there.
Ayesha:
Thank you. Thank you for encouraging me to put it on LinkedIn. I mean, I think I needed that push.
Binod:
Now, you're a corporate banker. A dyed in the wool expert, veteran, corporate banker. So I've got to ask you: with all this FinTech and automation and talk of disruption in banking and financial services that people keep talking about, what is the outlook for corporate banking globally? What is your view?
Ayesha:
Oh! This is an interesting one. Okay, so, let me tell you, I once read an article where they used AI to screen small business loan applicants. So apparently, after the session, the system rejected him, because he was sweating, and he seemed nervous. But later, when they dug into it, they saw his financials were perfectly fine. But the gentleman was just nervous about talking to a computer. He didn't know what to expect. So you see, there's still some things that your gut can tell you, or that humans can do, that a computer can't.
So look, I think FinTech and AI would ideally make our jobs better. I think a lot of the repetitive tasks or the busy work could be eliminated. And I don't think AI could really replace corporate bankers altogether, because I think the human element is very important. Although I wouldn't mind having a Tesla robot to do some of my filing from time to time. But seriously speaking, I think it will just help us focus on the more important things like relationship management, and studying clients better.
A lot of the time, we do a very half hearted job in really getting to know the client, and really advising them about what they should do about their business. We're just so busy putting out internal fires or managing internal reporting. And I hope that tech and automation can improve that and help us become more skillful at the job that we're actually supposed to be doing.
Binod:
Yeah, absolutely. So even in the field where the CFA program is very valid, which is investment management and wealth management and research. When people ask me, or they express their anxiety in terms of- “will I be displaced at work by a robot”?, my answer is, “not necessarily so”. I mean, robots can do certain things. They can't do certain things, at least as of now. And your best bet is to probably work on those things which the robots or machines can’t do. Such as, like you said, Ayesha, I think that the personal touch, the human interaction, deep insights about the sector or the business, these are things which I think are absolutely invaluable, and will be even more valuable and appreciated going forward.
We could go for much longer,Ayesha, on this conversation, because I just feel that we have a lot to talk about. But at some point, I suppose we had to wrap up. It's a podcast after all.
And I’ll ask you the last question, an important question which I ask all my guests. Now, you have spent many years in corporate life- multiple locations, multiple employers, as we went through it over the last many minutes. Now, a lot of people are looking to enter banking and finance. Now, especially with the current situation, the pandemic, job market imbalances, skill imbalances, etc, etc, what are the three top career tips that you would give a youngster who's planning to enter a career this year or the next year, in banking or financial services?
Ayesha:
And would you mind if I give you four instead? Okay, so these are just very, very basic things.
One, read everything. Okay. So no matter what you decide to do, this will help you. And I have over 700 books at home. And I'm making sure my daughter also gets into this habit as well. I think a major problem with people these days is that we're so used to scrolling and skimming over information that we forget to read what's actually there. But trust me, reading will give you an edge over everyone else.
Two, I'd say, don't take shortcuts. Sometimes, all we want to do is get to the top, and in our zeal, we’ll do anything to reach there. But honestly, the journey is often just as important as the destination. And what you learn along the way, will make you better. When you eventually reach the top.
Three, I would say, own your mistakes and don't make excuses. The people that you're dealing with, likely have years of experience, and they will see right through it. So don't make excuses. Don't lie, be a straight shooter. Just find a way to fix the situation.
And finally, I'd say, be humble in your learning process. Because who better to teach you than the guy who's already on the ground? Don't ever think that you're too high and mighty just because you have a fancy degree or a fancy qualification. There's never any substitute for experience. So be ready to learn from anyone, anytime, anywhere.
Binod:
Brilliant. I think I couldn't have encapsulated that in a better way, in terms of, I think number one would be to read. Secondly, don't take shortcuts, Own your mistakes, and finally show some humility. Because no one knows everything.
That brings us to the end of this very interesting and insightful session. Ayesha, thank you so much for taking time from your hectic work life and family life to go through the script and the questions, prepare yourself thoroughly, I think as is your wont for this session.
I think it does come out very well. I hope the listeners of this session would find it as interesting and insightful as I found it to be, given how articulate, engaging and entertaining you have been throughout this session. I hope and I expect to see you more active on professional networking, LinkedIn, blogging, talking about the financial markets, and who knows, maybe you might even venture into mentoring, podcasting, and other activities as well. I mean, you definitely have the creds for that, so, it will be good for people to hear your views. It'll be interesting as well. Thank you so much once more, Ayesha!
Ayesha:
Thank you for having me. Thank you for suggesting this. And I think I've learned a lot, not just about how to conduct a session like this, but also about myself as well.
Binod:
Brilliant. Thank you so much again, and I wish you the best in your career.
Ayesha:
Thank you Binod, thank you.
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Binod:
This podcast is brought to you by the real finance mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I really hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word. You should check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile which is: Binod Shankar, FCA, CFA. Let’s keep in touch! Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com, and we’ll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events and blogs. Till the next time, onwards and upwards.
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