Episode 34: Start with gratitude.
My guest isn’t the typical finance professional who I usually have on this show. But you will relate to his fascinating journey and may even be inspired by it to transform your life and career.
From childhood abuse to alcoholism, drug addiction, depression and suicidal thoughts, Harbinder has been to hell and back to tell the tale. Listen as he talks eloquently and frankly about generational trauma, his scarring childhood, the unforgettable watershed moment, his grueling recovery journey, key mental health myths, the big role of sponsors and counselors, how to stay mentally healthy etc.
I have a strong bias towards covering subjects that few dare or care to cover. Mental health issues are soaring globally and hence this is undoubtedly a hot topic for our times. Stories like this deliver the essential awareness, acceptance and practical solutions to make life better.
Listen, learn, grow.
You can check the entire video episode on youtube or enjoy reading the transcript below.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
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Binod Shankar:
This is Binod Shankar and you’re listening to the real finance mentor podcast from the realfinancementor.com. The real finance mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers in finance, CFA and more. Now you might think, why this podcast? Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your financial career, by making it, one: relatable. I mean this is not theoretical stuff. We zero-in on the critical, practical issues. Number two: authentic. No bullshit, no side-stepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three: insightful. Take a Chartered accountant and a CFA charter holder, add 17-plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10-plus years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full time CFA training. Add speaking, mentoring, cycling, mountaineering and other endurance activities, and that’s me! Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor, or as I call it: RFM.
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Binod Shankar
Hi everyone, this is Binod Shankar here with the real finance mentor Podcast. The podcast that brings you inspiration for your careers. Today I have a guest with me, who comes from a completely different background and experience, which is why I want him on the show. And we're going to delve into some fascinating topics revolving around mental health and careers and how to manage yourself in turbulent times.
My guest today is Harbinder Sangha. Harbinger is based in the UK. In terms of his education, he left school with GCSEs and went to college and studied in leisure and tourism. He spent nearly two decades in sales and recruitment working for Porsche, Hays recruitment and Randstad, which are all top recruitment firms with a global presence.
Harbinder is an NLP practitioner. He loves fast cars, travel, sports, learning and personal development, and is a bit of a traveler who enjoys visiting the Middle East, mainland Spain, Canada. Harbinder has been 14 and a half years clean and sober. And we've come to this journey, interesting journey of his, and he's a father to his son Dhillon, and husband to Kam. Harbinder, welcome to the show.
Harbinder:
Thank you, Binod. It's a real pleasure to be with you this morning. And thanks for the invitation. It's really appreciated.
Binod:
Let's dive into the crux of things. Can you explain to the listeners, Harbinder, what exactly is generational trauma, also referred to as intergenerational trauma, transgenerational trauma and inherited trauma? It seems like a fancy term, but actually, it describes something that's quite common, isn't it?
Harbinder:
It certainly is. I mean, if we take trauma, for instance, it's unique to each individual. What affects you, it may not affect me. It's really the environment that we grow up in. And it creates our expectations for life. And if our expectations are not met, that causes us to feel trauma. Trauma can also be passed from our parents. While we're in the womb, most people aren't aware that we absorb energy. And if our mother is having difficulties during pregnancy, is suffering with substances or her own anxieties, we absorb this while we're in the womb, and this normally leads to things like anxiety disorders, ADHD, very anxious children who seem very dependent on their parents etc.
Generational trauma is also known as generational dysfunction. For instance, my parents come from India. Their basic needs in India, needs would be clothing, food and water. They will ensure that their priority for their children is (so their children don't suffer) to provide those basic needs, and that becomes their priority. Now, as a child, if I want, say: nurturer, love, cuddles, kisses, hugs, my expectations aren't met. And I can find myself looking at my parents and judging them; they didn't love me, and this breeds resentment and frustration. And that causes trauma in me. I hope that sort of makes sense.
Binod:
Yes, it does. But if it's so pervasive and so devastating, why do we hear so little of this from people we know, friends, relatives, colleagues, or in the media?
Harbinder:
It's a really good question. I mean, I think, people are now starting to talk about it. We're just about 50 or 60 years too late. I mean, there's a huge drive at the moment by the World Health Organization, they have a campaign promoting mental health strategies, to improve it. Currently, there's about a billion people globally according to the stats, who are suffering with mental health, so it has been recognized. Unfortunately, for our parents, if their parents didn't understand, they had mental health or they had trauma or they had stuff, the chance of them passing on that knowledge to us is very unlikely. Culturally, in my experience, we're very similar to the British, we have a stiff upper lip. We don't show weakness. And we continue existing in life, feeling lost, confused, frustrated, but we're just too proud to talk about it.
Binod:
I mean, you have counseled quite a few people these days, who have undergone or are currently undergoing this trauma, right? Can you give three examples of this trauma, of course, while respecting confidentiality, so that this abstract sounding issue comes alive to the listeners?
Harbinder:
Yeah, sure. I mean, I think, one of the biggest things that I came across, certainly with female clients of mine, is freedom. Simply, women are treated very differently from us men. Women are restricted, they're often disempowered, and then mostly treated like a cleaner, cook or maid. Now, generationally, this is what I saw, and many of my friends saw as kids, growing up. So, when I conduct a relationship, at some level, I feel I must be the main breadwinner or earner/ provider, and my wife must work part-time or not at all. And I spend a lot of time empowering women if they're suffering with mental health. It's normal, that at some level they feel less than, not good enough or feel controlled financially and emotionally by their partners.
There’re men too. A lot of the men would find it really hard to open up. They would rather avoid their reality than face it. They often have an addiction to work, money, substances, alcohol, the gym, even (to having) sex with multiple partners. But all that external stuff doesn't quite fill the void inside, and when they finally do start to talk, they're normally very sad about their own upbringing, the lack of love or affection that they received, the lack of praise, which is a huge thing, and the feeling of not being good enough. And at some level, they’ve become the parents that they have issues with, that they despise at some level. And then they compensate by earning more money, or the next promotion, or getting drunk and not taking responsibility. The problem is not external, it's an internal issue, and that needs to be fixed.
And thirdly, I see a lot of things out there, we defend our parents because of our pride. And we might intellectually understand that our parents carry their own trauma or dysfunction, but we like to protect them. We defend them and their prehistoric views or their cultural ideals. And we hide behind the culture and the tradition. But your parents had their chance, and they chose their own path. It could be an abusive marriage, a dead-end job, a boss they couldn't stand or the stresses that they didn't put down. That doesn't have to be the same for you, you can choose what's best for you and your family. Living in the present is what's important.
Binod:
Of course, you have been there. You are aware of all this, and you can speak with credibility, because you were yourself, once, a victim of generational trauma. Tell us about how it all started and what went on in your family?
Harbinder:
Well, my parents came from India in the 60s…1960s. They were heavily dependent on family and friends in the community. Alcoholism was a big problem. It was hidden…mental health was unheard of back then. And I suffered…I suffered in the environment I grew up in, the home that I lived in, from verbal and physical abuse. This caused immense trauma in me. I remember, I was five or six years old, thinking, our house is weird. Why can't we be like our neighbors, who seem normal? The same dysfunction was going on up and down the street at varying levels. And I felt I'd be judged by one of my friends at school, if they knew what my family was like. But I learned very quickly, that sweets and candy was a great diversion, from me talking about what was going on at home.
Binod:
So, what was the effect of all this dysfunction on you? I want you to break this down in terms of the cognitive, emotional and physical impact over the many years, if you could.
Harbinder:
Yes, of course. I suffered from a young age with anxiety. I just remember getting these knots in my tongue…so, I suffered with depression, anxiety, low self-worth, really low self-esteem, and in the end, addiction to alcohol and drugs to cope. Mentally, I always felt less than, I never felt good enough. And I'd have, as I mentioned, these knots in my stomach, which today I understand, was the fear and anxiety that I was suffering. Before I got sober and clean, I felt suicidal, and I contemplated the idea of killing myself probably, on a daily basis. Thankfully, I didn't. I wouldn't be here with you today.
But emotionally, I was in bits. I always felt scared, I never felt assured of anything. Felt guilt, shame, regret and remorse for the things I was doing, while under the influence, was always angry and resentful. And every now and again, I couldn’t breathe, and I felt reasonably okay, that this was normal to me. And I felt life was very hard. Physically- I never felt good enough, my body could always be a little better. I was abusing my internal organs with alcohol and drugs; my weight would balloon up and down. It would go up, it would go down. My body hurt, my internal organs were telling me to slow down, but alcohol and drugs took away the pain of living this way. Physically, the levels of depression, anxiety were killing me. Thankfully, I'm a million miles away from that life now.
Binod:
Exactly. So, what is truly impressive Harbinder is how you have turned your life around. I mean, look at you now! You earn a good living, you own a home, you're happily married, you have a seven-year-old son, you help others, all of which probably looked impossible to you, and the people who knew you, not too far back. This could easily have gone on and perhaps even affected your children, as generational trauma often does. So, my question is, what was the watershed moment when you said enough was enough?
Harbinder:
I remember this one really well. I remember, back in 2007, it was the 19th of September, it was a Wednesday night, and I'm sitting in my local pub and I'm drunk, and I get a call from my girlfriend at the time, and she said, “Where are you?” Now, before I could answer, she said, “You're in the Pub I can hear you. And how many have you had?” Before I could answer, she said, “You're going to probably lie anyway”, because I always lied. And she basically said that she couldn't do this anymore. And she told me to check my emails. I managed to read an email that she sent, and it absolutely broke me. I mean, she'd verbalized this stuff on many occasions, of how she was feeling and what I was doing to her. But I just didn't…I was always sort of ratcheting up the next response to her issues, what she was saying.
So, she spoke about her love for me, how much she cared about me, and she could see the good in me, but she was getting tired of the daily abuse, of the arguments. She wrote about my father and his alcoholism, she spoke about the emotional roller coaster ride she'd been on and how slowly I was breaking her down from a happy, strong, independent woman to a paranoid, angry, scared wreck. Thinking about that email still chokes me up today. I cried while I read that email, and I cried all the way home. My journey, in recovery, started on the 20th of September, and that was over 14 and a half years ago, and I'm so grateful for her strength and courage.
Binod:
During your chat, you mentioned that, it's quite tough to let go of the bitterness and resentment. And that letting that go requires you to forgive. And that what follows, is accountability. Because now you can no longer play the safe game of blaming your parents for your present situation and wallowing in self-pity. And you now need to take charge of your life. So, what are three ways in which you drove yourself to take responsibility? Ways that probably others in similar situations can look at?
Harbinder:
For me, pain was the main driver. I was sick of that pain, that pitiful existence I was living in. I was sick of the Groundhog Day. And then the way I felt, how I was treating those closest to me- my mom, my grandma, brother, my sister, my partner, life was a mess. I was close to 40,000 pounds in debt, hanging on a job by the skin of my teeth. My relationship was in terrible state with my girlfriend. And she was about to leave me and I was sick of my behavior, I was feeling suicidal and I had no hope. Pain drove me to seek help. Once my support network was in place, it made my journey much easier.
I knew that I didn't want to go back; sick and tired of feeling that way. I wasn't going to let myself or others down. Nobody was going to tell me, “I told you so, I knew you couldn't make it”. So, I pushed on. I was feeling better and I wanted that to continue. My head was getting clear and my heart felt lighter. And I had some hope. I tapped into spirituality through AA, and this really helped. And I used the resource around me and humbled myself. That was a big challenge- to humble myself, ask for help. And one day at a time, anything is possible, I'm living proof of that.
Binod:
Talking about AA, it stands for ‘Alcoholics Anonymous’- for the listeners. I assume that you didn't navigate to all this alone, Harbinder. So, what exactly was the role that mentors, counselors, therapists, etc, played in your transformation?
Harbinder:
It was huge. I tried lots of therapies like most of us do. I read self-help books and all of that sort of stuff. And I tried drinking diaries, and limiting the amount of drink or money that I took out, but none of that really worked. I started working with a life coach, who was an alcoholic himself, and drug addict, too. But I didn't know this until later on in our work together, he was clean and sober. And it moved his career into life coaching. And Michael initially sent me to Al Anon, which is like a sister fellowship for family members and loved ones who are affected by alcoholics and drug addicts. I spent six months complaining, before I finally started to listen. All I did was go to these meetings, complain about how awful my life was, but I wasn't actually doing any action about changing it.
And then, obviously, after this event on the 19th of September, I basically the Al Anon were in the same building as the AA meeting. So, I just, I just went across the corridor to AA and alcoholics anonymous was where I started my journey. I couldn't believe that people felt an experience the way I did, they felt like they were now living good, honest lives, and helping others. Their honesty was astonishing. I found a sponsor. And my sponsor then became sort of my guide in recovery. And he took me through the 12 steps of recovery. And he helped me so much, he's still in my life today. He showed me a lot of tough love, but also a lot of patience support, empathy and compassion. He was there every step of the way.
Binod:
Amazing. I recall, you, Harbinder, telling me that you got into fitness at a very young age and one could bench-press 100 kilos as a young teenager. Now, I'm a fitness addict, and very much into regular workouts. Although I must admit, 100 kilos had always been, and probably will remain a tall order for me. And I keep advocating exercise as the remedy for many issues in life, not the least of which is physical fitness and mental health. How did you get into fitness at that young age? And what is the effect of that on your physical and mental health?
Harbinder:
I started weight training at nine years old, watched a really horrific traumatic event at our house, and I knew I had to get strong to stop what was going on. I waited outside the gym, I was too shy to go in. Brian, who was the gym manager at the time, came out and spoke to me. He asked me what I was doing there, and I said, I've come to train. He just said, “You better come in then”, and he really took me under his wing. He introduced me to the guys in the gym, and they all made me feel welcome. I trained with Brian every week for the next five years, every Saturday. And as I got stronger and bigger, my confidence grew. I felt happy, but still had all this underlying sadness from my trauma.
During my teenage years, I got into martial arts. I tried judo, karate and Kung Fu, before sort of finding my place really in Thai boxing. I really enjoyed Thai boxing, the use and the movement of all the body parts, and it was great for me. I really, really enjoyed those years, training. And then, as my addiction started to ramp up to alcohol and weed and girls and stuff; my training sort of slowed down really. And then I got back into the weights on and off, throughout my 20s. But my addiction was in full flow. So, it was never really consistent. And as I mentioned, in a moment, my weight ballooned, and it would go up and down. And then I started training, and really, in my late 20s, I lost weight and felt good again. But my alcoholism, again, was still dragging me down.
But once I got sober in September 2007, I was 30 years old at the time. I stepped up my fitness. Physical well-being is essential for overall health, in my opinion. It is very important. We strike a balance. My fitness journey, during my recovery has been on and off, across lots of different sports. I think now, I’ve sort of found my flow with weights and MMA, and a lot. I really enjoy the variety of sort of pad work, kettlebells, and hip training. But I also do other stuff. I do yoga, I'll stretch, I'll do just real, simple, basic stuff that just helps me with my mental state as well. It really, sort of helps me get settled in the morning to get prepped for the day ahead.
Binod:
Yeah, I’m always amazed by the fantastic effects on your mindset of exercises, especially in the early mornings; hit training, or things like that do take your energy levels to a different level. Now, I gather Harbinder, most of the time the root cause of addiction is stress, anxiety, or depression, right? People then turn to drugs or alcohol to take their minds away from the harsh realities of life. Now, I’m curious about mental health issues that happen in adults. Many adults whose stress, anxiety or depression become prominent in adulthood, probably got it because of childhood issues that were aggravated by what happened later in childhood. Now, what are the five actions that an employed adult who doesn’t have access to a therapist can take to reduce the risk of this aggravation, and subsequent severe mental health issues?
Harbinder:
I mean, the tips I’m going to share with you are kind of the things that I share with my private clients.
It all starts with gratitude. At the moment, we’re seeing a lot of stuff all over the world, there are wars going on all over the place! Start with five things that you’re grateful for, five things every day, and write these down because we can jump from about in our head, but we need to have them on paper. And it could be simple things, like- this morning, in my list had: I’ve got running water, a large percentage of the world doesn’t. There are still people that are going and in parts of India its still like that. It’s actually the simple things like running water, woke up in a bed! How many people are sleeping rough? That’s gratitude! It’s huge! Looking for this stuff, a fridge full of food; simple things that actually, when we sit there and reflect, we were quite lucky.
But also, there’s something else that’s huge, probably, for me, number two, is all about what you’re feeding your mind. If you’re not feeding it inspirational stories. The internet’s full of great inspiration to feed your mind positive, hopeful stuff. Look for people that have overcome their struggles, learn from them. Read about people who inspire you, read about happiness, read about spiritual growth, learn about money. Learn, learn, learn. It’s massive! We are so lucky with the internet, we’ve got all this information at our fingertips.
Get active like you said, spend time walking, running, climbing, and training, all of this stuff releases really good chemicals into the brain.
Also, food. We still don’t know what a healthy diet looks like, lots of people. Learn about food and the effects that it has on your mind and your body, and your mental state. Learn about that. And there are lots of free resources out there if you look for it.
There are lots of groups where people get open, share their tips and get honest about their stories about living happy and peacefully in their lives today. Join those groups, there are groups all over the place. We have the access to online groups, Facebook groups, Instagram groups, and all of that stuff, which is out there and readily available. And a lot of it is free. So, really, sort of throw yourself into that
Binod:
True! I was on the website of the UK-based Haynes clinic, which specializes in drug and alcohol, deaddiction, and I know you work with them. Now, there’s a short video where this lady explained that willpower alone doesn’t work in such situations, you need to be happy with yourself.
I also read on some websites that alcohol and drugs fundamentally rewire your brain in a way that keeps you hooked. Now, I found this all extraordinarily insightful, because, in the past, I have, for example, simply believed that the conventional wisdom, which is that most of the time, you can think a will your way out of an addiction or depression, which, of course, is not the case. What, in your opinion, are the top five myths that revolve around mental health issues among adults today?
Harbinder:
We are slowly moving towards a more understanding society, but, there is still work to do. I would say that the most common myths I hear, will be, that:
Mental health only affects certain types of people.
But mental health can affect anyone. Due to the nature of our uniqueness, we see the world through our own unique eyes. So, just because I’m living in a nice place and I’ve got servants and nice cars and nice things, but if I feel, my mother or my father could do more; my brother and sister don’t like me, or whatever it is, I can start to believe things that are negative, from my mind, and actually, this causes insecurities in self-worth and self-esteem. So, mental health can affect anyone. So, that’s really, really important.
Mental health will be with you forever until you do something about it.
The only way out is going in. For me, that’s the way I understand, that we have to go into the trauma to heal that, this has certainly been my experience. We need to go to the root to fix the trauma, otherwise, it stays with you, and you probably will be affected for long.
Other things like antidepressants will solve your problems.
Personally, I believe antidepressants are often a quick fix, but not a long-term solution. I believe global mental health services are hugely under-resourced, so giving people a pill to rush them out of the office or the clinic has become the norm. Eventually, the pain and the trauma will start to come through medication. And then what do you do?
Another one- and this is a real kind of bugbear for me; all counseling and coaching are the same.
This isn’t true. I prefer to work as a coach because it allows me more directiveness with my clients when they’re recovering. It basically means we can go more directly into the trauma to start healing a lot quicker. I would say 70% of the clients I work with, have either been on or are still on antidepressants and have previously tried some form of counseling, and they’re still stuck in the same place. They’re often really skeptical, but three or four sessions into our work and they can see tangible results, and their experience is completely different.
And finally, for me, I get so frustrated when people or so-called professionals put restrictions on clients, on what they can achieve.
Your mental health is a phase and you can overcome and move towards a happy, content, and beautiful life. You decide what you want, and we can work together to get you there. Don’t be restricted in your life. You weren’t created to be restricted. I genuinely believe that.
Binod:
Coming to solutions- it seems that one of the proven ways to combat mental health issues is to do something that you love doing. Enjoying yourself can help beat stress. So, if you do an activity you enjoyed, it probably means you’re good at it, and achieving something boosts your self-esteem. We don’t have to go far, of course, to see real-life examples. Let’s take your case where you obviously love helping people make their way out of addiction and mental health problems and you make a decent living out of it. Now, this situation where your work not only makes you fulfilled but also provides a decent livelihood, quite surprisingly, evades many people. How did you come to be in this sweet spot (for lack of a better word) and what can we all learn from this?
Harbinder:
Yeah, it’s a great question. I believe we all have gifts. As children, we’re all innocent, and we’re created to achieve great things. Unfortunately, dysfunction in our lives, schooling, and external pressures force us into careers that don’t fit, relationships that don’t work, and unfortunately, lives that are not fulfilling. I feel very, very grateful and fortunate to have found my flow. Steve Kotler talks about, and lots of people are talking about the flow of life. Life felt like a struggle for so many years, and I was running on peer pressure and self-will to make the world fit around me. And today, it’s just simply not like that. Today, I wake up grateful for another day to do the job, my creator intended for me, and it feels very natural.
When we swim with the current of life, life just unfolds and it takes all the external pressures away. I feel deeply connected today. And for a long time, I felt on the outside. And for me, I think, my success is down to…my pain as it is my greatest asset. I believe this is true for us all. However, most people, unfortunately, live in pain, because they’re not inspired to change. We can all change and work towards the greater good and that becomes part of the global purpose, to really make a difference. I can’t change a billion people overnight, but I can change a few. And if they want to get inspired, and they want to move into careers and use their pain as a way of changing, then that’s a good thing. Because one by one by one, we can start to make a difference on a global scale. So, I hope that sort of answers what you’re asking.
Binod:
It does. At the outset of this podcast, I did say it was about careers. And although we didn’t specifically talk about careers; mental health is intimately connected to career success. So, let’s move to an issue which is specific to careers, which is that- when you look around, you see a lot of people getting stuck in a miserable career and I suspect they do that often because, among other things, the crap career pays the bills and confers some amount of respect in the eyes of society. These are also among the reasons why the job can be tough to quit. What are the successful career pivots that you have seen, and why were they successful?
Harbinder:
My story in itself is one, but I’ve been very fortunate whilst working with clients to see some amazing things.
I had a really successful Deputy Headteacher at the school- he loved the job and felt absolutely trapped by the monotony, the schooling system, and the total bureaucracy that comes with that. He just felt his hands were tied, and he didn’t feel he was being supported. Always trying to support the kids he was teaching, just felt restricted in his career options. And basically, just a real block in his life. And we ended up working together. We established some of his dreams and some of the goals that he had for his life.
And he’s now completely retrained. He now works as a ceramic tiler. He’s transitioned into that new occupation, which already earns him a pay rise on his current job as a Deputy head. He’s got the freedom to work anywhere in the world for ceramic tiling. There’s ceramic tiling in the UK, in Dubai, in India, wherever; it’s the same stuff. And, he works the hours that work around him, and not a lot of additional hours marking and all of that sort of stuff that comes with teaching and he feels so much happier in himself, it’s just great. Every time I see him now, (we still have catch up calls) he’s smiling, he’s happy, he’s content.
His dream was never to become a ceramic tiler, but he ended up in this career, and actually, it’s allowed him to live the other dreams that he had; the freedom and the flexibility, the travel, all of that stuff that typically comes with that, so that’s awesome.
I had another client, who was recently divorced. Her dependence was on her ex-husband, he provided her with the financial support and as a result of that he also controlled her, and she was crippled by this. She felt she had no options. What was she going to do? Because she would be financially controlled by him for the rest of her life. We discussed her skill set, what she had gone through recently, and how her journey would benefit lots of other people that were going through, particularly females, going through separations or divorce. And she’s currently training to be a relationship coach. So, she can use her own experience to support clients on how to work through their relationship struggles, or help them to choose to separate. And she has referrals set up with solicitors and accountants who she worked with personally, whilst going through her own pain. So, she gets to feed-in tariffs for that, and all the rest of it. It’s great, she’s kind of gone from someone that had no hope, to someone that actually has a lot of hope, has some dreams, and has an idea of where she’s heading in life.
And finally, (this is one of my favorites) while I was working at a rehab center, we had a crack cocaine addict come into our rehab about three years ago. Two years ago, he started a four-year counselling course to become addictions counselling, and is inspired by what we did there. It blows me away. Today, he’s happy, he’s clean, he’s a father to his kids, he is present in their life, and he’s breaking that cycle of addiction in his family. He’s hoping to change lives using his own journey of inspiration and hope.
For me, I think, in a nutshell, for anyone who’s stuck, side hustle. We’re hearing Gary Vee and lots of people talking about side hustles. Start to do that towards your calling, and you can one day develop a life that’s fulfilling and inspiring. We all have something the world needs, we just need to find out what it is. I really really hope that this touches and inspires you to start your journey. Most people will never start, and I definitely think that the sooner we get on this new path, the sooner we start to heal, and the sooner we start to get happier and more fulfilled. So, it’s a real pleasure to be with you guys today.
Binod:
Harbinder Sangha, thank you so much for your time, for your raw honesty, and your powerful insights. I love your transformation journey and what you’re doing to help others navigate the same path. And may the force be with you.
Harbinder:
Thank you, Binod. It’s been a real pleasure and I really hope and pray someone got something from what I shared. Sometimes we just need to hear someone else’s story for us to really kind of click into gear and start our own transformation in our own life. So, I really appreciate this opportunity. And thanks again.
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