Episode 31: Lessons Learnt
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Binod Shankar:
This is Binod Shankar and you’re listening to the real finance mentor podcast from the realfinancementor.com. The real finance mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers in finance, CFA and more. Now you might think, why this podcast? Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your financial career, by making it, one: relatable. I mean this is not theoretical stuff. We zero-in on the critical, practical issues. Number two: authentic. No bullshit, no side-stepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three: insightful. Take a Chartered accountant and a CFA charter holder, add 17-plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10-plus years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full time CFA training. Add speaking, mentoring, cycling, mountaineering and other endurance activities, and that’s me! Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor, or as I call it: RFM.
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Shwetabh Sameer
Yes. I guess there would be a lot of advice that one could give.
But based on my experience, I feel, the one most important point for me was to get a mentor. And if you’re able to get that mentor early in your field, that is going to play a very important role. Because, mentors are those people who give you an unbiased view of different decisions that you’re going to make in your career. So, they give you that view, and they can help you identify your weaknesses and strengths, which is very important. You can’t just get into a field just because you think you want to. You need to know about what challenges you are going to face and all. I think that’s why it’s important for you to have that mentor. And I would suggest not to just ask a manager to become your mentor. I would rather suggest someone who can give you an unbiased opinion. It can be any other colleague of yours, who may be working in a different field, in a different team. But yeah, it’s better that you get that mentor early on in your career.
The second point would be, I’m sure I think I’ve already talked about that in the podcast- it’s networking early. You will come to know about what’s actually going on in the industry. Not only that, it also opens you to a lot of opportunities which are going to be there. In my case, these were essentially investment conferences and volunteering at CFA Society. The kind of exposure that it gives you, again, you don’t have to think that you will do that only because you want to make a job switch. It’s just about making that connections. Because, you have no idea how you’re going to meet other people. That’s how I met you, for example. We didn’t know that we will meet each other. So, I think that’s the power of networking. You can meet so many people who will be relevant to your industry. So, it plays a very important role.
And, I think, third one is being humble and having a continued learning approach. Great minds who I have come across, they always have these two traits. Things change so fast in the industry. So, you need to be acquainted with these skills and stay updated. You know, when I look at people like you, and so many different folks who are head at their companies, or directors, other levels and all- I think, when I look at them, I always have that sense of respect for them and I’m always impressed. Because, they have that kind of knowledge not only in their field, they will also have knowledge on what’s actually going on outside.
So, I think these would be the three key pieces of advice that I could give. But yeah, I’m still in the early phase. Maybe, there will be a few more to come. But it’s more, try to have those experiences over the period.
John Perry
You know how I like to start many answers with a caveat!
So, this one is that I’m always aware of the survivor bias with these kinds of things! Just because some things work for me, doesn’t mean it is the best piece of advice and everybody should do it. I often think that, when you see the kind of TED talks where somebody will be saying that they did something they thought were brilliant and that everyone should do it!
Like there’s a meme somewhere I saw that there’s a guy with loads of money. It’s about the survivor bias. He’s showing how “I spent every penny that I had on lottery tickets. People told me I was silly, but I carried on, and look where I am now! Eventually I won”! You know, because that one did, but there’s a lot that didn’t reach TED talk stage. You asked me a very simple question so let’s do 1, 2,3.
Don’t set rigid goals. I mentioned about goal adjustment. I think sometimes when you’re young, it is easy to set out what you want to achieve. You’ve got this timeline and you’ve got this focus. And there’s awful lot to be said for that. But focus on that means you might miss other opportunities as well. I think there’s a real travesty sometimes when people do that.
Do stuff that you’re good at. Because, it’s really rewarding to feel that you’re doing something well. So, if you can find something that you’re good at, know that you’re good at it and keep doing that. It will get its reward one way or the other.
Finally, I would disassociate career, with life satisfaction. It’s one factor; there are many factors to life satisfaction. You don’t work forever. You’ll spend a period of your time where you’ll retire and enjoy life in retirement. To go back to my death-bed scenario, nobody lies in their death-bed. Wishing that they had spent all their time in work! Know that there are friends and families and hobbies, and ambitions that are not career related. All of these things, the things that bring about life satisfaction. So, never place your happiness as contingent upon one thing.
Souad Al Serkal :
I’ve kind of hovered over a couple of them. What I’m saying, that I’m going to specify them. There are three points that I’d like to cover.
Always ask yourself “What if they don’t!”
It always happens for a GOOD reason
Don’t fear the unknown
So, let’s elaborate a little bit.
So, again, I spoke about the fear of rejection. I noticed, that most fear rejection, as an idea and that’s valid! But instead of setting up yourself up for that, convince yourself that there is a positive possibility to every situation! So, instead of asking yourself “What if they say no!”, ask yourself, “What if they say yes”! It’s all a matter of perspective.
I was taught that if Allah allowed us to see what he has in store for us in the future, we would drop to the floor thanking him and never get up. Which means, what? Everything that happens to us in the ‘now’ is either preparing us for a brighter future or eliminating what we ‘think’ is good for us to allow something even better into our lives. Which brings me to a story of mine.
At one of my jobs I was promised a promotion; I found out that my name was shortlisted and it was just a matter of time for me to get it. I was absolutely devastated (because I knew I deserved that promotion and I worked so hard for it) that I was taken out of it. I said, “You know what! Something better must be coming soon. I was hoping for it, but my name was taken out. It’s not a big deal. Something must be better”! Truth be told, less than 6 months, I got a job somewhere else that was 3 grades higher than what I had, 3 times the salary I had and needed me to join immediately. Please note, that if I got that promotion, my notice period would have been three months and because I didn’t get that promotion, my notice period was only one month. And because of my vacation accumulated, I could have reduced it to only two weeks. If I got promoted, the opportunity of a life time would have gone way. So yes, it may seem like it is the end of the world at that moment, but remind yourself, it is always for a good reason.
Finally, we are always afraid of the things that we don’t know. So, the fear of the unknown. Cold feet before getting married, picking a new home, traveling to a new country! It is a completely normal reaction, but never fear it to the limit that you run away. Stand your ground, challenge yourself. And if you don’t know how to proceed, (surprise) ask! Don’t hold yourself responsible for the information that you do not have! Empower yourself with knowledge and the experience to move forward. So, there is nothing scary about not knowing something. Admit it to yourself, allow yourself to understand that and ask! Ask! Ask! Ask!
So, given your experience, can you list your top five networking tips for youngsters who are ambitious and smart, but bit naive about how to proceed?
Hanutosh
Sure, absolutely
i) Before you start networking, you should only pick one or two jobs; maximum of two jobs that you want to pursue. And not more than that, because when you narrow down the scope, it makes it much easier for you to network and easier to prepare. If you're choosing like five different fields, you have to learn five different subjects and you know, that's not the best way to use your time and resources. Narrow down on the jobs that you really like and have it ranked number one and two…, but that's how you start.
ii) You should never be afraid to reach out to people and connect however senior or junior they are, this is the only way you will actually get yourself out there and be marketable and presentable in front of people. They will not know who you are until you actually reach out to them.
iii) Know your audience. If you're speaking to someone who's working in, let's say, risk management, and if you ask them about a job in asset management, that would be a waste of their time and your time as he basically would feel that you have not done your homework to understand where he works and two is that he actually might be limited in that capacity to help you out because he's in a different field and you're asking help from him to go in a completely different field. So that's a very limiting. Next is never ask for a job, rather be genuine in connecting with the person to learn more about the field he is in, what he is doing and forming a meaningful relationship. Yes, you know, down the line, if things work out and you have shown interest, and made a strong impression, they'll definitely keep you in mind. And that's how you pop up. And basically, if you form a really good relationship, I would remember, “Oh, yeah, this person reached out to me, I think he might actually be good for a role and let me ring him up and see if he's still interested or available for this position”.
iv) Networking is not like a one-time exercise where you just reach out to people, connect with them once and expect miracles to happen or take place. Networking is more like a long-term investment, that you actually have to invest in this process. It's a very long-term process, where you keep in touch with people. It just could be anything. Just being in front of them. And over time, it'll actually feed benefits.
v) When you're speaking to someone senior, make sure you have your story patted down as to why you want to do this, what makes you a good candidate and always have something; some interesting questions, and not some generic questions that you can find answers to online. Because the first question they'll ask you is, “Okay, why do you want to do this”? And if you fumble, or don't have a right answer, I would just be like, “Okay, this is just someone regular, who was just looking for any job. And he's really not interested in this one. And he's just reaching out to me”. And I think so that's something that's very important- know your story and why you want to do this. And also, you're trying to learn as much as possible about the field, when you go out there and network. So, the best way to do it is basically asking questions, which also shows curiosity to the person who you're talking to. And that kind of makes them think, “Okay, this guy is actually interested in this”.
Binod:
Right. Now, you've been in investment banking, Hanutosh, for nearly one and a half years, and have been involved, if I mean looking at your resume, in quite a few big deals; including leveraged buyouts, acquisitions, debt financing. So, I've got a few questions for you. Firstly, because a lot of youngsters see investment as a very sexy field, you know, investment banking and obviously they want to break into IB, but they have no clue of the skill sets IB demand. So, what are the skills, aptitude, you must have to succeed?
Hanutosh:
Okay, so I think the most important skill, is technical skills. Like accounting, valuation, those are very important. That's your daily bread and butter. And that's the bare minimum requirement, that's not even a requirement for you to reflect. It’s like a tick mark, “okay, he has it”. Every other candidate who's interviewing will know his technical skills. So that's the first place to start with.
But that's not the only thing. Second thing, what is like an aptitude wise, I would say taking initiative. If something comes along, you should be the first person to raise your hand, say that you would do it. But you should kind of always be careful when you say yes. Because if you try pleasing everyone, or saying yes to everything, you're essentially setting yourself up to failure, as there are only 24 hours in a day. And those deadlines are rarely shipped.
Third thing I would suggest is attention to detail, because sometimes the devil is in the details. You might not pay attention to it, but at the end, that would actually make it a win or lose situation for you.
Fourth thing I would say, would be problem solving and critical thinking. Something that's very important. Quite a few times you'll be given work and you'd be expecting that you would be taking on this work from someone else and helping them out, relieving them of this duty and helping them think of bigger picture stuff. So, in this case, of course, they'll guide you and help you, but most times people are busy in other things, and you might not get constant attention. So, for you to actually solve the problem given to you or think critically, that's very important. And that kind of shows, that if you can do that, “okay, you're giving him some responsibility, he's able to do that. Let's move forward and give him higher responsibility”. I think that's what they say in banking, “before we help you merge two companies, complete this simple task before you actually end up doing something very heavy”. So, gaining the trust of a person is very important.
Binod Shankar:
Right. So, that is the top-three aptitude or skills that you need.
Hanutosh:
Correct.
Binod:
What are the top three attitudes, in terms of your approach to work, that you must have in IB, to succeed?
Hanutosh:
So, I think something that's very important is your soft skills. Your personality, how you speak, how you connect with people, how you present your work, is very important. At the end of it, any job that you do, requires some sort of personal connection. If you're an easy person to work with, that's much better for you and everyone, compared to not being an easy person to work with.
Two would be- you should always ask questions. Show that you're eager to learn. If you don't understand anything, sure, take out the first 10-15 minutes to understand it, or do it by yourself; but if you don't, always ask question as to why is this happening? Can anyone show me how it's done? Or anything that you don't understand. It just shows that you're eager to learn.
And, you know, third thing I would say is like, when you actually join, you may not know anything or everything at all. And that is okay, as long as you're willing to put the effort and learn. That's something that's most important.
Then, the fourth thing I would say is humility and being humble. Like showing excitement in your job. Not being arrogant, being responsive to people when they email you, right away. At least, telling them, “hey, look, I got this, I saw your email. I'll get back to this later on the day”, or whenever you get time. But at least, that way people know you read their email, and they are not consistently worried that have you got my email or not. So, yeah. So, essentially, as a beginner, you don't bring a lot to the table. But you're expected to bring excitement and eagerness to learn. And I think if you have these qualities, I think you are definitely set up for success.
And I think the last but not least, is having a great work ethic. Always showing up on time, meeting deadlines, always extending a helping hand to the team. I think that goes a long way. So yeah.
Minakshi:
Thank you for your question. And I'm really touched that you are asking me for advice. And let me try and give you something different, some tips, which are slightly different from what you've probably heard.
1) Show off what you know, but acknowledge what you don't know. This comes from what I spoke earlier, saying you must say what you don't know because no one's a mind reader. They're not going to know your limitations. So only show off what you know, and what you don't- go out there and ask for help. There's nothing wrong in asking for help for what you don't know.
2) Be there early. Get into the office early and work in the early morning hours. Don't stay too late. Don't do that late-night culture. Don't do that face time culture. It's much, much better in the long term. And you have more perspective, you're fresher. And your attention to detail is much better.
3) It won't always be easy. It's not going to be easy, but hang in there. People will only have as much confidence in you as you have in yourself. So always have confidence in yourself, because it's not going to be easy. I've not had an easy road, but I hung in there. And if you hang in there, you'll definitely make it.
Grishma Adani
my first point had an indirect impact on my career
1) Surround yourself with right circle of people: who you spend time with the most has a strong indirect influence on who you become as a person. Don't fall into the fake social media trap to get external validation, don't be scared to cut off & eliminate. Because of massive groupism issue, people try to change themselves to fit in and develop insecurities & are worried about what people think of them. That leads to several mental blocks, self-awareness issues, low self-esteem & anxiety. I was once upon a time a victim of this, I have seen many intelligent friends of mine lose focus because they were unable to cut off & move on.
I saw a change in my personality as I surrounded myself with right people who I share common interests with, I got really lucky as all of them had way more life skills & career exposure than me, my dynamic circle of advisors has throughout my entire career inspired me to take up different possibilities/risks from leaving a well-paid investment banking job to joining a pure sales role at BRIC, leaving BRIC and going all out on networking and upskilling. My decision making & planning skills over time have got better as a result of surrounding myself with right people.
2) Network early & seek out education beyond classrooms: I wasted a lot of time in university, trying to fit in, made incorrect choices, got really lazy and as a result became a follower. I would opt for courses because everyone was doing it. And boy did I waste a lot of time & money!! Whenever any undergrad tells me “I’m doing CFA, ACCA, MBA because everyone in my circle is doing it”, I'd tell him to stop, because he's making a big mistake! Solution? Network early, reach out to analysts, managers, alumni to understand & learn more about their roles before deciding for an MBA/MS or CFA.
Many undergrads start networking when the time comes and think they have developed a passion in investment banking because they liked few finance subjects in uni.
You cannot be passionate about something unless you have had a practical exposure to it!! Do early internships even if it's for free in as many core finance roles to get clarity. Participate in seminars, conferences, competitions, that's the easiest way to meet professionals and seek guidance. I would also strongly recommend young finance undergrads to subscribe to Wall Street Oasis- it's a one stop shop resource for finance.
Clarity is everything! Use resources like LinkedIn, WSO, Mergers & Inquisitions, CFA community to figure out step 1 for breaking into any finance role
3) Lastly, build a long-term goal: Don't get comfortable with your pay cheque & job, anyone can be easily replaced, a sudden situation like COVID can take away everything from you in a second!! Keep self-investing, build your network correctly. To not get distracted, I always write down my daily goals & try to focus more on the process. Based on what I aspire to become, I know it's a tough road ahead, hence why I don't really focus on the outcome. Instead of procrastinating, I try & learn from my mistakes, celebrate my small wins, reflect on how much I have achieved and always have a backup plan. Progress in any form excites me & that's how I define success. To me success is progress in any form!
Dhruvish:
Three career tips for youngsters who are still in college or just entering the workforce?
Clarity is power. Get clarity on what you want to do and more importantly why you want to do it. If you know these two things, sooner or later you will get what you want. Now this is easier said than done. You might not have the clarity on day 1 but one should keep looking for it and eventually in 2-4 years you may end up getting it.
Intelligence is overrated & Persistence is underrated. You don’t have to be the smartest person in the room but try to be the grittiest. So, there is this quote by Denzel Washington “If you hang around the barbershop long enough, sooner or later you are gonna get a haircut”. Its one of my favorite quotes & I truly believe in that.
Networking is more important than your degree. I mean even if you are the smartest person out there, you can’t go far, unless 100 people know you & you know them. But having said that, Network with the intent to give & it will come back to you in unexpected ways.
Ketaki Sharma:
So, number one is read, read, and read. So, there is no shortcut there. You've got to read all the amazing books out there. And there are plenty depending on what are your interests. So, if you're interested in something and you want to excel, there are no shortcuts. You've got to read those books. There's a wealth of information, wealth of knowledge out there. It's so well documented. It's right there for you. So I think number one is to read read and read.
And number two would be...so, if you have role models, it's so easy to access them now. And in this day and age, YouTube is there for everyone. It's for free. So, if you want to, say if you're inspired by Warren Buffett, you can any day go and look him up on YouTube, listen to his talks, listen to his most recent talks. So, for instance, if you're someone who's looking for tips on, say, financial markets, look it up, look him up (Warren Buffet), look up your heroes and just go ahead, listen to them. So, having those greats, having those professionals so accessible to us is a blessing. And it's free of cost. What could be better? So, go ahead, listen to them.
And third, I would say, is for all those young guys and girls out there, go and intern! So, if you think, if you are wondering what it means to be, say, a data scientist, stop wondering, start acting, go there, take up an internship, learn it. If you're wondering what it means to be an analyst, apply to all these positions globally, everyone today is working virtually. So, say, you're in India, you want to work with someone in the US, it's possible today. Go and apply there, to any firm you want to, go to all these websites. Use LinkedIn, use Angel list, go and apply, talk to people, and get that internship. Know what it is to be a data scientist, know what it is to be an equity researcher, and then take the call. We did not have this option when we were their age. But that's the opportunity you have, and make the most of it. So, I think, being aware of that opportunity is important and then making the most of it is equally important. So, I think those are my top three tips.
Ani Filipova
The first thing is I was just speaking about change. So be prepared for a lot of change and be prepared to embrace it and to run with it. Be adaptable, agile, be curious, ask a lot of questions, contribute. This is what every employer will look for.
The second thing is be digitally savvy. And if you don't have an MBA, at least you have to be master of zoom. Because without that, you won't succeed nowadays. We are all on some digital means. Even now, together, we speak on zoom. So, you have to know all the gadgets and apps that will help your working life, to make things better for you, easier for you, increase your productivity.
And the third one is again, you have to master your ability to connect with people, work with people, not only in person, but also digitally. This is a very, very, very important.
And all this, obviously, it needs a positive attitude; and giving 110% at your work. Not an easy task.
Ayesha Tariq
Okay, so these are just very, very basic things.
One, read everything. Okay. So no matter what you decide to do, this will help you. And I have over 700 books at home. And I'm making sure my daughter also gets into this habit as well. I think a major problem with people these days is that we're so used to scrolling and skimming over information that we forget to read what's actually there. But trust me, reading will give you an edge over everyone else.
Two, I'd say, don't take shortcuts. Sometimes, all we want to do is get to the top, and in our zeal, we’ll do anything to reach there. But honestly, the journey is often just as important as the destination. And what you learn along the way, will make you better. When you eventually reach the top.
Three, I would say, own your mistakes and don't make excuses. The people that you're dealing with, likely have years of experience, and they will see right through it. So don't make excuses. Don't lie, be a straight shooter. Just find a way to fix the situation.
And finally, I'd say, be humble in your learning process. Because who better to teach you than the guy who's already on the ground? Don't ever think that you're too high and mighty just because you have a fancy degree or a fancy qualification. There's never any substitute for experience. So be ready to learn from anyone, anytime, anywhere.
Paul:
Okay, well, I'll give this go. You did warn me about this question. So I did have to think about it. I hate these sort of three top top tip things.
But the first thing is to say, I think, to everybody, go back to the thing that I said at the start that there's a long race, and it's not where you start that counts, it's where you finish, that's what's most important. And so, it's getting your first foot upon the ladder, that's important in the business, hopefully, that you want to be in. Don’t worry so much if you can't get into...if you want to be at the front of the asset management process. Don't worry, if you can't get there to start with, get into an asset management business at whatever level in whatever capacity. If it's in the middle or the back office, and work your way forward to the front office. It's a long old race, you have lots to learn, you'll be better in the front office, if you have gone through the back office. So try and remember that it's not where you start in life that's important, it's where you finish. So, I think that's the first thing that I would say. I certainly did that. I started as an accountant, went into an asset management company in the back office and worked my way forward from the back office to the front office. So it's perfectly possible, it's still possible. You can do it if you'd navigate the organizations that you're in successfully.
Secondly, I think we've mentioned it many, many times during this podcast, never be afraid of change or uncertainty. And in the asset management world, it's not about being afraid of change and uncertainty, it's about embracing change and uncertainty. That's what depresses me more than anything else when I think about the asset management industry, as we seem to have forgotten that change and uncertainty is where we live. That's where the opportunity is. That's the good stuff. The more uncertainty there is out there, the more change there is out there, the more alpha we can generate. So we want to, actively, as asset managers, go to places, countries or industries, where reporting is poor, where people have 10 different views as to how something might work out. That's where we live. If you know everything, if you know what the future looks like, you're never going to make an investment return that's above the rate of cash. So, always be, in your mindset, if you want to be a good asset manager, always in your mindset, embrace change and embrace uncertainty. And that's obviously a lesson for life as well, that these are good things, these are dynamics that propel humankind forward, and you want to be on the right side of them, you want to be challenging yourself to take advantage of change and uncertainty at all times professionally and personally.
The final thing, which connects back to my wanderlust, if you like, is go see for yourself. I think the modern world is set up in a way that we believe that we can, and obviously COVID has contributed to this as well, we believe we can do everything sitting behind a screen. And the types of technical people, as we talked earlier, that we've sucked into the investment management industry are disposed towards that view anyway, thatthey can see everything that they need to see on a Bloomberg screen or on a YouTube video or some other streaming service. But it's not true. Because you're seeing a filtered view of life, you're seeing only what people want you to see, you're not necessarily seeing the whole picture. And the one thing that I can absolutely assure you of, is that when you go and visit a company, or when you go and visit a country, your view of that company or country will be radically different to the one that you have come to, through your desktop research. There is no substitute for going to see for yourself.
So those are my three tips: ‘It's not where you start, It's where you finish that counts’; ‘never be afraid of change and uncertainty, those are your opportunities’, and ‘go see for yourself’.
Sakshi Gupta:
Thanks, Binod for asking this, I am happy to share the key things which I have learned from my journey so far and which have helped me somewhere are:
Be Determined, relentless, and focused. I personally believe that if your level of determination outweighs your hard work, as in 49% of hard work but 51% determination. Sometimes, this sheer determination could open doors and lead you towards your goal. I have personally experienced this in several ways. But be cautious as it works only when there is marginal difference b/w the 2 i.e., hard work and determination. So, I would say be mindful leveraging this.
Another thing which I have learnt being part of corporate culture is
Don't put all your eggs in one basket and the same applies to almost everything else in life. Not all individuals/organizations etc. are the same and it’s not fair to treat them similar way right.
So, to add to that but you know in another context you might not be able to walk in someone else's shoes. You must be wondering that what I mean by that so for example If your shoe size is 7 whereas you are trying to wear someone else’s shoe which is of size 10. Then, obviously, you are not going to have a good experience and you will end up complaining. So, to conclude we should seek lessons from others but sometimes you will have to sail on your boat by yourself.
This is something I have learnt lately, when I was changing my job, people told me that don’t go to this organization or that. They all were my seniors and friends and they were trying to help me to make an informed decision, but I felt that they had just made perceptions based upon their experiences or per hearsay. Rather in such cases, I would suggest inquiring more details like okay which company, which department/process/team/managers, etc. what reasons made them not liking it? Understand those and then make a call.
Be open to new challenges: We are in a fast-paced dynamic business environment and we need to be open to anything coming up on our way. This was another blunder I made at first because, to be honest, any new challenge scared me not because I didn’t want to undergo change but I was afraid to fail and make mistakes. With time I realized that you grow and learn only when you take on more challenges and make mistakes.
Moving on to next, I am sure most people must have heard and know it’s significance, so I will keep it short and clear. Creating your network by building relationships, both interpersonal and professional. is necessary as it will help you when you need someone and vice-versa.
Most importantly!! It all starts and comes from YOU and that is where self-belief comes into the picture. It is very important to never ever underestimate yourself because if you don’t believe in yourself, there is no reason for anyone else to believe in you. Each of us has our own defined personalities and traits which makes us different from the rest. So never pull yourself down mentally and instill thoughts of self-doubt, comparison, or being any less than someone else. #StayFearless!
Karishma
So what are the three top lessons briefly that you learned in life and career and how did that happen?
Karishma: So I linked this to a bit of my running, when I was running my recent half marathon, yes. And I was at about a start, at the sixth kilometer, I was running and I happened to see this group of runners who were led by this one with the flag. I didn't know what that flag meant, but I looked at those runners. This is while I'm running. I looked, they were all visually challenged and they were all running in the night. And that moment I realized that, what am I complaining about? If they can, I can. I have a pair of legs. They do. You just have to get there and start running. So this is what I learned, that you can't complain about anything. You have a lot more than you think.
Binod:
So the first lesson is don't complain.
Karishma:
Don't complain.
Binod:
Yeah, I agree with you.
Karishma:
And the second lesson that I could say is failure. I've been a good student from all my school college levels, again, Dean's list and all that and I never experienced failure. So obviously, they're two different things. Classroom studying in school is different from CFA, but I had never failed. So it was number one, mentally challenging to deal with it, to embrace it, to accept failure. And obviously, you have to work on it mentally before you actually start executing a new plan. So that was one very important lesson that it's okay.
Binod:
I still remember, sorry to interrupt, I still remember the message you sent me after you failed I think level II or level III the first time. I remember this was like 24 hours or 48 hours after the results had come out, when normally people are in a state of shock or disappointment, and you were quite calm about it. And you were saying, you know what, this happens in life, I deal with it and I intend to move on. I was quite impressed even at that point, if you remember the exchange. And I was thinking, she's quite unique because people don't normally react to failure after studying for so long in such an important exam. So second lesson, very important, failure. Be resilient.
Karishma:
Absolutely. It teaches you a lot. It teaches you a lot more than just passing, by the way.
Binod:
I always say that failure is delay is not defeat. It's just delayed your, what do you call it, final destination. But it's not a full stop, it's a comma. And what else?
Karishma:
So the same thing, again, dealing with rejections. So my work also involves a lot of it, so I can understand that. What is important in your career as well, like you have to be out of comfort zone. So hungry, you have to be hungry for new things, new challenges, new opportunities. There are people we come across in our daily lives who are at that position for years or in that role for years. You wonder, are they settled or are they comfortable?
Binod:
Yeah, same thing. So I really wonder, people are there for like 25 years in the same position, no promotion, same job, same company. And I think, holy crap, how do they-
Karishma:
It limits your ability to think of new things and I think being hungry for better, be it career or be it personal life, just teaches you new things. You just pick up new things in life. And I think this is what my entire CFA, running journey has been about; new things, look for new goals, new personal bests.
Amit:
So number one, ask, always, always ask, right? Never be afraid to ask. What's the worst that can happen? The person can say, "No." Right?
Binod:
True.
Amit:
But what's the alternative? Somebody could say, "Yes." And that could be a big step in achieving your dream or your goal as well. So always, always, always ask. Very critical.
Binod:
Right.
Amit:
A second aspect would be just to be very curious. Never give up, never restrict yourself to a particular role, to a particular job, to a particular business. Go beyond so for example, if you are working in the business, there's an X, figure out the upstream and downstream kind of impact of your job profile. So once you do that, you will be so much better educated. It will also allow you to figure out what your next move is, what all you can achieve, what are your, what are the things that you might be lacking, and thereby, acquire some of the skills and attributes. So be curious, right?
Amit:
Third thing, make your own decisions, right? It's be open to advice from everyone, okay? So reach out, never, never ignore advice. Okay? Take it. Take every advice from everyone and anyone that's out there, but make your own decisions.
Binod:
The final decision is yours.
Amit:
The final decision has to be yours. Like sometimes it will work out and sometimes it will not work out and that happens to all of us, right? But it's my decision and I would enjoy the success of it. And if it is failure, I learn from it and make sure I don't make it again.
Binod:
Exactly.
Amit:
But make your decisions. So, always ask, be curious, and always make your own decisions.
Surabhi
So the very first lesson which I have learned, which is very important, is never stop learning, not to become stagnant and your life is like ... past mistakes happen, regrets happen, that's okay, but one should keep on improving themselves. There is never-ending improvement you can see. The second thing I believe is be more humble, be more open, be more flexible. Either at some point at time you will be burned or buried, so ultimately one should allow himself or herself to be more acceptable, more open and connect easily with others, because you've got only one life.
And lastly, I believe one should take calculated risks. I'm not saying baseless risk, it should be calculated, because ultimately we have also done CF and everything so you can relate. So when it comes to finance, it's not baseless risk you are taking, it has to be all this calculated risk. That takes you to somewhere which is much better and new. What I'm trying to say is that sometimes there are people who might not be supporting or might not believe in yourself, but that's okay. Listen to your heart and mind and whatever you want to do in life, you should do it. But it should be done within the ... what do you call it? By keeping in mind the calculated risk and everything. Ultimately there is a saying that there is no gain without pain, so one should always focus on that. So these are the three lessons which I have learned so far.
Fadi Al Said:
Three lessons or three tips from your side.
Fadi Al Said:
I would say set clear targets with clear timelines and write them down. And then when you identify them, write the tools that you need, write the skills and the steps you need to make you achieve them. Believe me, it makes all the difference. And I always urge people to be who they are, be yourself. I always tell the guys, if you remove the time you sleep in your life, you spend almost 70% of your time awake in your work. So If you're not yourself and you do not like what you do and you don't have the passion of what you do and you're not being yourself, it's a horrible life to live.
Binod:
True.
Fadi Al Said:
So be yourself, be consistent with that. Don't change yourself according to a job or for anyone. Just be yourself. Be consistent with yourself, so setting your goals, being yourself. And I would say always be passionate about what you do, what you like. Do what you're passionate about. Don't be driven by money or don't be driven by a monetary base, because I think that you're doing what you like being passionate about... It's set in a very vast way. Everyone is passionate about what they do. But I think if you do that out of passion, you'll be happy. And happiness is the ultimate target of what we do. You want to be happy.
Karima:
The first one definitely is the passion. I know that a lot of people are saying that, but it's really true. You need to be passionate about what you are doing to keep the motivation high and the commitment high, and also to help you drive people around you if you are a team leader or manager.
Binod:
I'm going to jump in here. Sorry to interrupt, but how do you know what you're passionate about when you're young, when you're in your twenties, like most listeners of this podcast. You are a fresh graduate, first job, how do you figure out what really drives you? How did you figure it out?
Karima:
You experiment with things. I think it's critical. Very few people know exactly what they want to do at 20 years old.
Binod:
Exactly.
Karima:
So you need to experiment with different kinds of things, and see which one is really exciting you and making you feel that okay, this is what I want to do. Maybe along the way, as it was for me, I was very excited about the building engineering path, but at the end I realized that no, this is not for me, I wanted something a little bit more fast-paced. So don't be scared to experiment with things, this is the best way for you to fine tune your preferences and to find your passion, actually. And you can have several passions, you are not limited to one. So as I said, I am in AI and machine learning, but I absolutely love also the alternative food options and the whole subject about intolerances and allergies. I'm having several passions driving me, you need something to keep your motivation and your drive and your ambition as well.
Binod:
So one was the passion. What other lessons would you say, for career and life.
Karima:
Okay, curiosity is definitely, definitely very important.
Binod:
Be curious, yeah?
Karima:
Be curious. Yeah. Be curious. Try to learn as much as possible. This will help you to always improve your skill and keep yourself motivated. Try to explore different things and to understand the why of these things, to keep yourself going.
The final lesson, it's to be grateful as well, for what you have already in life, in your career. But keep yourself focused and determined to explore every other option that could make your life better and happier.
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