Episode 26: It is important to give your 110%.
I deliberately select a variety of guests from different levels (junior, middle, senior), genders and nationalities all with the same focus of insight and inspiration for a finance career. So the moment I saw Ani Filipova's profile I wanted her to be a guest on RFM and you will want to listen to her for many good reasons.
Quite frankly, a woman from Eastern Europe rising through the ranks of a giant multinational bank to be the Chief Operating Officer without any of the usual qualifications ( MBA, CFA etc) while working around the world with diverse cultures AND raising a family at the same time and then quitting all that at the top of her career to pursue her passions was too good a story to resist.
And oh yes she's quite a nice person to interview- calm, open, flexible and diligent- and with many shared passions who knows one day we may do another project together! I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did making it happen.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
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Binod Shankar:
This is Binod Shankar and you’re listening to the real finance mentor podcast from the realfinancementor.com. The real finance mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers in finance, CFA and more. Now you might think, why this podcast? Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your financial career, by making it, one: relatable. I mean this is not theoretical stuff. We zero-in on the critical, practical issues. Number two: authentic. No bullshit, no side-stepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three: insightful. Take a Chartered accountant and a CFA charter holder, add 17-plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10-plus years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full time CFA training. Add speaking, mentoring, cycling, mountaineering and other endurance activities, and that’s me! Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor, or as I call it: RFM.
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Binod Shankar:
Hi everyone, this is Binod Shankar here, the ‘Real Finance Mentor’. The podcast that is meant to deliver insight inspiration for your finance careers. And every time I bring on a special guest, someone experienced, someone who talks authentically and is concerned about upskilling, employability and how people can grow in their careers. Today I have one such special guest. And she's quite senior. She comes from banking and financial services. And she comes from a very interesting background. Born behind the ‘Iron Curtain’, a small Eastern European country, Bulgaria, Ani Filipova is an international banking executive with more than 25 years of banking experience. She's been with Citibank for 21 years, working in Bulgaria, London, Singapore, and Hong Kong and roles spanning product and relationship management, operations and risk and control. Her most recent job was Regional Chief Operating Officer for Citibank, Treasury and trade solutions, in Asia; and is now taking a sabbatical. So, welcome to the show Ani.
Ani Filipova:
Thank you, Binod, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Binod:
Now, you've traveled widely in your career, and you told me that even as a kid, you wanted to go abroad. So, where did you get this desire to go abroad and travel? I want you to explain this in the context of the young Ani Filipova, in Bulgaria, pre and post-collapse of the Iron Curtain, partly because I'm a history buff, and the collapse of the USSR and communism in Europe was (of course) a major turning point in world history.
Ani:
Well, interesting question. So, as you said, In the beginning, I was born in behind the Iron Curtain, I grew up there. And I get a lot of these questions: “So, how was your childhood”? And people expect me to say, “Oh, it was awful behind the Iron curtain”, but it was not. I remember (it as) only (a) great, great time. It was a great childhood. We didn't know what is behind the Iron Curtain. And we were happy with what we were having.
I used to live in Sofia, which is the capital of Bulgaria, and every vacation that I would have, I traveled to my grandmother, who was living in southeastern Bulgaria. And I was there for the duration of vacation without the parents, only with my sister and my grandmother and many friends. So, it was great. My grandmother, she had in one of her rooms, the wall was all books. So, I was reading a lot. Not a specific genre, just whatever is there on the on the shelves. And how it started is- so, my two favorite books when I was a child was Karlson Who lives on the roof, and Pipi the Long Stockings. And these books… you know, Karlson is from Stockholm and I had no idea where is this; and Pipi was talking about, Borneo, Kolkata, and to me that is sounding so mystical! And I was thinking, “Gosh, when I grew up, I want to go to these places”.
In addition, my father was an engineer and he was working on the tube, the underground, Sofia underground. So, he was working with German engineers, and they would come often to our house, and they would bring these interesting things and snacks that we've never seen in Bulgaria- like Mars bars, or Lion bars, or Haribo, or chewing gums and magazines with things that we've never seen in Bulgaria. So that was how it started, right? This is how I said, “Okay, the world outside is huge”!
And then I grew up, I read more, I was listening to DW, to Radio Free Europe, or listening to music. Geography was one of my very favorite topics and subjects at school. So, for me, Macau and Hong Kong were fascinating places, so I just really wanted to go there. So, I guess what happened was that all this made me want to see the world outside and the Iron Curtain was keeping us on the lock, over there in Eastern Europe. So again, I guess for me that exasperated my desire to travel. This is how it started.
Binod:
It's always interesting and Ani, because whenever you look at somebody’s current hobbies, or personality, (you) can almost, always trace it back to their childhood, and what happened then.
Let's shift gears here. I mean, you achieved your career success at a major global bank, Citibank, without an MBA, or CFA, or ACCA or any other fancy designations. I find this interesting because many youngsters these days believe that a qualification is absolutely essential for career success. What do you think are the three traits or skills that you think played the biggest part in your career progress?
Ani:
Okay, good question. So first of all, let me start with that, that I never thought I'm going to be a banker. As I just said, travel was my passion. So, I just wanted to work in a company, international company, which will help me travel. After I graduated, and this is when it was 1992, that means Bulgaria just broke out of communism in 1988. So, it was opening, right. So, there were international companies coming in Bulgaria. So, I applied there but unfortunately, everybody rejected me because they were looking for people who were experienced, including Shell and McDonald's. I was heartbroken. But I had to have a fallback scenario because I had to work. And then I switched and started sending CVs to Bulgarian companies, and this is how I secured a job in a Bulgarian bank; and I started in the SWIFT department.
When I was starting work, MBA, CFA, any of these didn't have any meaning in Bulgaria. You had no need to have this. My other jobs in Bulgaria that Imoved (to), these were not a part of the requirement. And then when I moved to Citibank, all the internal postings I had were based on experience. So, MBA and CFA didn't play a huge role in my life. However, nowadays, things are completely different and MBA and CFA are great. Plus, when you apply for a job. But having these doesn't mean that you're going to get a job, it is a fierce competition. And I…every year when I was the COO, I would be part of the Management Associate Program and the intake interviews. And all these people had an MBA and CFA, and honestly, I was thinking, if I have to start my career, now, I will totally fail it. Because, these people are so much more knowledgeable and experienced than what I was then, in that time. So, I guess that explains why MBA and CFA didn't play a great role in my career, in the beginning.
When it comes to the three key qualities…
So, first, (and I think the most important to me, that helped me all throughout my career) was connecting with people, understanding what drives people, how to help them collaborate. So, this is what people will remember- how we treat them. I have a genuine interest in people, and I'm interested in all types of people from all walks of life, and doesn't matter where they are on the social ranking. I'm just interested in them. When you have this interest in people, you start networking better, and you grow your network, which helps you to find your next job. And after that all these qualities helped me to be a good manager.
The second very important one is working hard. So, for me, regardless of which job…maybe it's not your favorite job, but you always have to give 110% at the job, because this is what is maturity. And working hard creates your brand as a trustworthy employee. And every employer will listen to this employee, and they know that you're reliable. So, all this brings you luck. But luck to me is nothing else but how hard work meets the opportunity. So, hard work is important.
And the third one is being intellectually curious, changing, wanting to learn. You cannot stay still. The world is changing in a great pace, you have to change with it. So, when I started my career, I wanted to have a more rounded experience. So, I started in operations. This is before Citibank. Then I moved to front office, client experience, branch network. I was even a head of HR at one point, and then in Citibank, I was business head for Bulgaria. Then I went to product relationship, audit, risk. The two important qualities that gave me the COO job was the business knowledge and risk knowledge.
Binod:
Interesting. I mean, it just shows how far you can progress in your career based on (like you said) the ability to be good with people and to work hard and smart, and just be curious and keep on learning, isn't it?
Let's talk about another aspect of your interesting career. I mean, you are a successful woman in finance. At the same time, you have a family, and you're raising two kids. Now, this is, of course, a challenge…it’s a huge challenge that many women in the workplace have faced, are facing and will continue to face. So, how do you manage all this and what were the highs and the lows?
Ani:
Thank you for this question. You know, this is one of the questions that I get asked a lot. But I had quite a smoothsail, with occasional hiccups. But you can't expect that life will go just like thiswithout any issues. And during my career, I never left any other way, but respected. And people treated me in line with what I was contributing at work. So, I never felt like a second quality citizen.
So, to say, I was promoted when I was eight months pregnant. So that was one of the promotions. I was going to give birth and go on six months maternity leave. But unfortunately, the more I speak with women, the more I understand that this is not what happens generally, and to everyone. And once I returned back to work after the maternity, it was a bit different. Because on top of everything I had, I had to look after two kids. I'm very lucky and fortunate and thankful that I have a very supportive husband who stepped in. And he started managing work life at home. So, when I went back to the office, and that's valid for every woman who comes back to the office after maternity- we are faced with a completely different…actually not different, but unique things, that we have to deal with than men.
So, one of these unique things that happens even today is that every woman going back has to be very careful that her salary and her bonus is actually adjusted to her prematernity year. Otherwise, you start lagging behind with everything, because they compare your bonus increase to the previous year which was your healthier year, when you're on maternity. So, this also happened to me, and I took several years to basically sort it out. And it's a very strange feeling to go and ask for something that you already had, and pray for it. So, once you have kids, you start wondering why is it normal for the woman to leave at six to be with the kids and not for the men? Why? Why is it fair that men don't have the choice to stay home? Is it less manly to actually stay home and look after your children? So, all these questions and more, made me work with the women's network at my job. And I was mentoring a lot of women and girls, telling them what is it? How they have to plan their life (for women who are about to go on maternity)? How to come back to work, etc.? So, that's how I managed my life.
But I will focus a little bit on my relationship with my kids. Because I think this is very important. And we women judge ourselves very very harshly. We just…I mean we are working, and sometimes we go out in the evening because we’re tired, we want to have fun. And we leave the children or the child with the helper or with the grannies. We feel so guilty. And we feel we are such bad mothers. But if you go by this logic, you will think that there are no good fathers at all. So, we have to be less judgmental towards ourselves. Because we are good mothers, we are doing everything possible.
The second thing I have to say is that whenever I am with my kids, whatever time 10 minutes, 15, 20, 1 hour, it doesn't matter, you have to devote 100% of your attention. You cannot just email and check your screen. Because then if you concentrate on your kids, they know that they're your attention at this moment of time.
Another thing I did, I explained my job to my kids. And I explained why I work. Why is it fun? What is happening? I have taken them to the office on numerous occasions. And actually, this is one of their favorite activities- to come and have lunch with me, or to go with me to the office. That was big fun for them. I never missed any school gatherings, any plays, any sporting events, whatever is organized, whatever matters to them in their life. And this is how they feel they are loved. And one of the very important things is to demand your partner to help you, because you are in this together. These are my takeouts. This is how I managed to have a happy life, with a busy job, but also raising your family.
Binod:
I think, what I find helpful in what you just said now and is there a very important role that both, your employer and your partner, play in making life of a woman easier at work and at home.
Let's talk about something that probably you and I share, because I, once upon a time, used to be an auditor with the big four. Now, audit is often one of the least liked functions within a company because it's perceived as mainly being about finding fault and fixing blame. One of the unpleasant aspects of your job in audit and risk review must have been to deliver bad news to employees. So, what are the three behaviors of yours that helped in being successful at your job in audit and risk review?
Binod:
Yet, what you said is absolutely right. No one likes the audit function. Absolutely no one. But you know, as I said, you have to give a 110% in any job. So, I did that, exactly that when I was in audit. And it gave me so many important lessons and it taught me so many things. So, for instance, it taught me how to manage conflict, because in audit function, mainly you manage conflicts. Another thing is how to build a thick- skin don't take things personally. And continue to strive in an environment where people generally are much happier if they don't hear from you than when they hear from you. And I learned a great deal about cities, simply because I was traveling to city branches in Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia. So, I created this amazing network. And all this helped me for my future. And as I said, it was one of the things that actually helped me get the COO job. But that three things, I always did, when I was in my other job. And that made it a bit easier.
So, the first one is to maintain a surprise free environment. So, what I mean is that I keep the people that I audit apprised of what is going on. So, they are not cornered in any meeting, in front of other people, because that's the worst. You can have open, honest communication.
The second thing is- listen to what people have to say. Listen to as many as employees want to contribute and say something about the issue, because every opinion matter.
And then the last thing is- seek consensus, because without consensus, then you leave a very negative connotation to anything you do. So, this is what helped me in my career in Audit.
Binod:
I can definitely identify with your first point, Ani, about no surprises; and no one likes to be cornered, especially in a meeting in front of everyone. I remember, early in my career as an auditor…you're this young hot shot and you wanted to prove yourself and on quite a few occasions I would send a draft report to the client, which contains some surprise points. And sometimes that popped up in subsequent client meetings. And it didn't always go well. In retrospect, that was a stupid move. But you know, when you're young, you do many such stupid things.
Now, interestingly, in the conversation, you mentioned that you have visited Citi branches- Europe, Middle East, Africa and Asia. Now, as a result in your career, Ani, you must have dealt with tons of people from different cultures. Eastern Europeans, Western Europeans, Americans, Arabs, Africans, Indians, Chinese, etc. Now, these days, youngsters must learn to work with global teams, on a global context, in a multicultural environment, especially in a world where remote working is increasingly popular and prevalent, and practical as well. So, what were the challenges that you faced dealing with diverse cultures and how did you deal with these challenges?
Ani:
I have to say that the multicultural environment is one of the best things in an international company and I I love it! I like working with so many different people. And all these people give you a perspective, which you would never otherwise learn. And they have different approach to things. And that gives you a lot of things to think about and teaches you a lot of things. This is how you become better in inclusion and in your ability to communicate. But I have several rules that I follow, to navigate in a multicultural environment, because it can be also very dangerous one if you are not prepared.
So, the first thing for the countries which I would visit, or I know I'm going to work with certain people from certain cultures, I would personally, first rule is read and learn. I will read about the country. And I want to understand what is the good behavior? How do I behave well and good, and make a good impression? This is very important. Once you know this, you just look respectful, and you look good; and this should not be left to chance. You have to be prepared, you have to read.
Then, when you work in a multicultural team, there are people with backgrounds that you have no idea about. You don't know where are these people coming from. So, when you meet a team and work with people, you just have to first observe, listen to them, learn about them. Learn what makes them think. What do they think is good. What is bad. How they approach different issues and situation. Don't judge them, just first learn about them.
And then you get a better idea of how to approach them and how to collaborate, how to work better together. And one of the best ways to learn more about people is social gathering outside of work. People relax, you have a nice chat, and their cultural values come up, and you understand who you're dealing with.
The second and the last thing is- speak their language. So, if you're in an International Bank, and the language is English, the worst thing that one can do is start talking with somebody else in their own language. This is what creates negative environment. So, you should use the main language, don't make side comments in language that only you and your friend know. So, these are the three things I would say. But in general, you should be willing to embrace other people and to be willing to learn about them.
Binod:
So, to summarize dealing with other cultures-
1) Read and Learn
2) Observe and learn as well.
3) Speak their language and don't be a foreigner
Makes sense.
Now, let's talk about something that people always talk about, which is bosses. You were once a junior and you had bosses, and then you became a boss yourself and lead many big teams. Now the popular belief is that you should choose a boss over a job. What's your view?
Ani:
Well BinodI have a bit of a different view. I absolutely agree that it's great if you have the ability to choose a good boss. But then, aren't you missing out on the best job you want, you're after? So, I think that the answer, as usual, is in between the two extremes. If there is a job that you absolutely want to do, either it’s something that is going to add tremendously to your career, you should go ahead and take the job. Sometimes, some bosses that are branded as bad, once you start learning about them, working with them, just see that they're not bad at all!
Um, I had a mentor in London when I was in Citi London, and he told me when I was talking with him, about this job and that job, and he said, “Who is the boss is not the question you should ask yourself when you're looking for a new job. You should be asking yourself how is this job going to make me grow? How is this going to add to what I have already as qualities and how it is going to help me get on with my career, the way I plan my career”? “Bosses”, he said, “come and go. And you learn from each and every one of them”. And I remember this because it's so true, it actually…that happened throughout my career.
So, I had in my career, many bosses. Some of them were good bosses, some of them were exceptional bosses. Some of them pushed me to go to areas that I knew nothing about to challenge myself, and they really made me grow and become what I am today. And there were some other bosses who taught me how not to treat people, how not to behave, and what not to do, if you want to have a happy diversity. So that's basically it. And I used all this throughout my career.
Binod:
I mean, if I look back on my own career, Ani, I think, just to have my perspective, I think my best jobs - I had a good job, where I was learning and growing, and also where I had a good boss. But of course, it's not always possible to have both, right? So, you have good bosses, bad bosses, and ugly ones. So, let's talk about the last two categories. Because working with a bad boss can be a horrible experience, that can lead to, among other things, physical and mental burnout, and many listeners of this podcast, have, and are probably going through this phase of their careers, and they probably need some practical advice on this front. So, I have two questions. So, first question would be, what was your mindset when working with bad bosses?
Ani:
Um, first of all, first step is- listen to the boss and understand where is the boss coming from. Actually, understand what kind of person is that? What makes him or her tick? Why is that behavior? And unfortunately, they are these bullies who progress in their acts and manage people, and they should never manage people, but they somehow get promoted and supported by their bosses, and they will always be there. But if you're working with one of them, (and) you observe that there is nothing that can be done- get out of there as soon as possible! Find another job, another opportunity, and move on, down the back. Nobody should make you feel worthless, nobody should make you get into depression or make you self-doubt! Absolutely not! You have to get out.
But sometimes, bad bosses, they also have bad bosses. And that actually makes their behavior the way it is. So, it's not your fault that your boss has a bad boss. But the thing is, you can actually, by observing, learning, etc.; you can help him and then indirectly help yourself to manage the situation. As I said, first and foremost, if you are in that situation, where you think, “okay, there's something can be done”, the first most important thing is you do 110% at your job. So, you should give absolutely nobody any reason to doubt your commitment to the job. And that- if the boss can change, then they can see you are reliable, trustworthy, things might change. And also, you delivering on your job gives you confidence, that protects your mental health. Because, yes, you deliver.
And what are some practical ideas of what one can do? First thing is, if you have a micromanager, there is absolutely nothing more rewarding to tell the boss- like he asked you, “where is this”? And you said, “Oh, I already did it. It's in your inbox”. So, learn to anticipate and be always one step ahead, (it) makes miracles, it will take you a long way. If tou know what sets up your managerjust avoid that thing at any cost.
And one should always keep a positive attitude. I mean, polite and positive attitude inclusion always makes good stance, you can rely on these things. And now I'll finish with another one, which I felt, which I learned from, from experience- being absolutely well prepared in meetings, because there's nothing worse than being attacked when the meeting ends and you don't know your material.
So, not all relationships will start badly, will continue this way. And sometimes you might create an amazing relationship with your boss, and then continue with that relationship all your life, as friends. So, these things happen. You just have to see in which situation you are- the two situations I was talking about.
Binod:
I meanin some statement you made earlier today, said that, “you learn from both good and bad bosses”, which I find quite an interesting perspective. And I wish I had that mindset when I was dealing with a few bad bosses. Now, what did you learn, Ani, from bad bosses, that you subsequently applied at work?
Ani: Everything that I was talking about, I learned and then applied. So, I was able to very quickly set who is who. And that helped me actually collaborate with other people. Because if you have difficult people to work with anyways (it's not only your bosses); so, everything that your bad boss taught you, you can use, so you can distinguish for the people and how to treat them, because you've already identified some ways to behave. So that's very helpful. You just apply every single thing in your career. And also, that taught me how not to be the bad boss, but to be the good boss. Always strive to be the good boss. You know how the good boss made you feel, and you know how the bad boss made you feel; so, you know what led to it, use it.
Binod:
Basically, we'll learn what to do and what not to do, when we ‘re the boss. Which, of course, neatly segues to a related career point, which is mentoring. Now, you've probably, Ani, mentored a few juniors, men and women, in your long, successful career, working for a huge multinational bank. What are the top three traits or behaviors that you look for in a mentee, before deciding that he or she was worth helping?
Ani:
I love working with young people, and starting professionals, I just really love it. And the first thing I look for, is whether the person has a genuine interest to listen. Because they should want to really learn from you. And they should have a goal they want to achieve. They should want to do that. Because there are some others who are choosing you just because they want you to send their CV somewhere, or to boast so and so is my mentor. I would not work with people like that.
The second is, I would prefer to work with people who are self-aware, and they know what they're looking for. So, they know what are their pluses/minuses, what they want to achieve, what they want to take out of this mentorship. This is the caliber of people I would work with. But also, on some occasions, there are people, especially employees who come directly from school, they just don't know anything. And they needed guidance to find out what are their pluses/minuses and where they should be going. I also work with these people and these are very rewarding relationships also.
And the third is- I will repeat myself again, but I'm looking for curious people who are knowledgeable of the world around us, the trends, of the inventions, the risks. So, it's always good to work with such people who are interested not only in the job, but how this actually impacts the world around us. These are the three types of people I would work with.
Binod:
No, I agree with you. I also get approached a lot on my LinkedIn mainly, by youngsters, asking me to become their mentor. And my point is, we should have the right attitude. Like you said, curiosity, self-awareness. You should have the right aptitude as well; the intellect; and then I can guide you, because guidance comes from experience and expertise. But if you ask me to hire you or forward your CV, then I'm probably not the right person to contact.
Now, we've talked about your highs and your learnings, but there must have been regrets, right? If you look back on your life, career, education, health, wealth, happiness and other key indicators of career and life what are your three biggest regrets looking back and why?
Ani:
Well, the first is, I didn't take enough time with the children. Even though I'm very hands on mom. And even though I managed to see them for breakfast and dinner most of the days, and that doesn't happen for a lot of parents, I still feel that I didn't have enough time with them. I mean, there is no time enough for your children. That's my first biggest regret.
The second is, I didn't take good enough care of my body. Even though I'm in a pretty good shape, now that I'm in my sabbatical, and I have more time, and given all the medical advances, I could have done better. I could have been healthier, I could have been fitter.
And then the last one is…my regret is that I waited too long to have kids. Unfortunately, my father never got to see them. And because he would have been a great grandfather. He loved children.
So, as you can see, these three regrets have the common factor of busy job. But thankfully, the first and the secondare correctable, still correctable. And that's one of the reasons why I'm taking a sabbatical.
Binod:
Yeah, we will come back to the sabbatical point later during this interview. But yeah, it’s is never too late for most things in life, right? Never too late.
Ani:
“Better late than never”, this is a Bulgarian saying.
Binod:
Now, you probably covered a few points earlier during this conversation, Ani. But I wanted to sort of rephrase or repeat that in a way. What are the three career tips that you would give a youngster who is currently planning to enter or is already in the early stages of a career in banking and finance?
Ani:
Okay, that's a good question. And that question I got asked a lot, especially by people on LinkedIn, and young graduating students or younger employees.
Banking and financial sectors have been under transformation- new technologies, different and unique geopolitical events, COVID; All these had a profound impact on banking. Banks at the moment are accelerating digitization, they are implementing new technologies. That means, a lot of system changes, different setups. The banks- some focus on harnessing data, managing different new risks. So, the business model is changing. And we know that the way people work is also changing. So many, many moving parts. So, I would say for everybody who starts a career now, they should expect a very dynamic and changing environment. And this is really to say the least. But I spoke about many things already, I'll now, just add three additional things here for our listeners.
The first thing is I was just speaking about change. So be prepared for a lot of change and be prepared to embrace it and to run with it. Be adaptable, agile, be curious, ask a lot of questions, contribute. This is what every employer will look for.
The second thing is be digitally savvy. And if you don't have an MBA, at least you have to be master of zoom. Because without that, you won't succeed nowadays. We are all on some digital means. Even now, together, we speak on zoom. So, you have to know all the gadgets and apps that will help your working life, to make things better for you, easier for you, increase your productivity.
And the third one is again, you have to master your ability to connect with people, work with people, not only in person, but also digitally. This is a very, very, very important.
And all this, obviously, it needs a positive attitude; and giving 110% at your work. Not an easy task.
Binod:
No, not an easy task at all. And I was just thinking of what you said, “be digitally tech-savvy”. And I think, the last point connected with me the most, “master skills to stay connected with people”. Not just online, but offline as well. Because, you can be digitally savvy, and you should be, with zoom and teams and Google and all those. But I think the human touch is so important and crucial for developing your career and so easy to forget, in these days of remote working.
Ani:
Yeah, it's always so easy to forget. But make no mistake, behind every technology, behind every AI is a person, or people, teams, people, humans. So, your skills to connect with these people will be what drives your career for sure.
Binod:
Right. So, let me come to what was to me, probably the most fascinating aspect of your career. You're now on a sabbatical since you have resigned from Citibank after what, 21 years of climbing the corporate ladder, and I know you left as chief operating officer in the region. Now, that is a highly unusual and gutsy move. Because you were a senior officer with a successful career in a global bank, and most people in your situation typically work on till retirement. It must have been a carefully considered move. So why?
Ani:
Wow! Um, you know, when I was planning for the sabbatical, I never thought it's gutsy or unusual. Never. But when I announced it, I actually found out that people do think that this is a gutsy and unusual thing. But it's fine. It's fine with me because I am okay with being different, and gutsy in the eyes of the people. And it's not something that was difficult, it was not a difficult decision to make, because that's what people haveasked me how can you make the difficult decision? But I'll explain my thought process.
So, the first thing that started this- when COVID struck, and we were locked at home, the kids were studying at home, my husband was at home, I was working from home. And I suddenly had the glimpse of the life my kids and my husband had while I'm at work, which is like the whole day. We had breakfast, lunch, dinner together, we were chatting, talking about different things about life. And the more and more I was in that, the more and more I was thinking, “I want more of this. I just want more”. I didn't like to go back to the office and work right from there. I wanted to be with them.
When my kids were born, I was ready to become a full-time mom for a period of time. But well, at this time, my husband said, “Well, if you think I'm going to now cart our kids to different activities and become that parent, no. I don't want that to happen. This is not a deal”. But at the end, this is what happened. He took over and I continued with my career. And I was always jealous that he had the better part of the deal. I didn't get the better part of the deal. So, since I gave birth, I was just thinking about this…”one day, I'm going to spend more time with my family”.
And this one day got postponed and postponed and postponed. And suddenly last year, my kids were 10. And I was thinking, that's it, that's my last train. They are going to be 11. By the time I'm out on sabbatical, 12/13, and they become young adults, they want to spend most of the time with their friends. That's my last train, I have to catch it. Otherwise, I'm not going to be able to live with the consequences of not building this connection with my kids before they become young adults. And for me that that was very, very important. And there was nothing that could have stopped me, nothing.
The second reason was that the last six years of my career were so interesting, the most rewarding. I grew the most, I learned the most. But in parallel, I developed a network purely, intentionally. Developed networks outside the banking. And I started seeing entrepreneurs, scientists, journalists and other people who actually opened the door to a completely new universe that I didn't know anything about. And that gave me a lot of food for thought, an opportunity. And I wanted to see other opportunities and see what else I'm good at. And I didn't want to miss out on this opportunity. So that was my second reason.
And the third reason, but not the least, it's not in order of priority, I'm just throwing them out as they are. I definitely wanted to reset my body because we just abuse our bodies on daily basis. Keeping track of the PC, we don't do enough sport, and you're stressed if that cost you midnight. And you can't rely, you're not building your body. So, what do you think, it's going to carry you through the old days, gracefully? Not really! So, we have to stop, reset, rethink, get in better shape and see what's next.
So, these are the three reasons why I decided to go on a sabbatical. And it was a great decision.
Binod:
Quite a personal and quite a revelatory decision. In my case, I left corporate life 12 years ago, and it was push and pull for me. The push of the stress and politics and constraints and limitations of corporate life; and the pull of the freedom and independence of entrepreneurship. I just crave to be my own person. I think, after a stage and after an age of life, you want to be in that phase. That’s probably where you are now.
Now, you've left the hustle and bustle of corporate life. You are now a free woman with so many possibilities. I mean, this must be a tremendously exciting time for you, and I’m probably…I have mixed emotions of being envious and respectful as well, at the same time, of what you're going through. So, what are your plans?
Ani:
Well, first of all, this is the best time of my life by far. And I'm so grateful. And I just want to be healthy and my family to be healthy, so we can enjoy this as much as possible.
So, there were many things. I had great plans. And I spoke with many people before I went on sabbatical, but one of them told me, “Look, give yourself six months, because now you're thinking one thing while you're still working,that you want to do 1, 2 ,3 But once you become free, your mind is going to kind of go in a completely different direction. Just give yourself time and meet different people”. So, I followed this advice. And what I did already, I managed a complete house renovation and I love architecture- the renovation, everything beautiful. So, I have found our house. I always wanted to do that. So now, my next goal is to build a house from scratch.
One of my longtime interests, and I told you I'm genuinely interested in people, I just want to give back to young or graduating students, and to people who just start their careers- advice and everything I know. I am connecting with several universities to teach practical things, of working career, etc. So that's on the way, this is one of the key things I wanted to do. I will also start a podcast, be a little bit like you, and there are a couple of other things, but in due time, in due time.
Binod:
Confidential!
Well, this has been an interesting conversation, Ani. I mean, a lot of…I mean, both of us, I think, had a few things in common that helped. And we've covered from early childhood, to education, to getting a job, or growing in a career, good bosses, bad bosses, mental and physical health, women's issues at work, a lot of things and I think and I'm sure the listeners would find insightful and inspirational as well.
Thank you so much, Ani Filipova, for taking the time and spending the time to go through the questions and give very detailed and helpful answers. I'm very excited as you probably are, at what lies ahead for you during the sabbatical period of yours. Thank you so much. And I look forward to seeing your career future with considerable interest.
Ani:
No, thank you. Binod Shankar. It was such a great time with you now. You know this podcast made me think a lot of things and clarify a lot of things. So, it was very helpful for me, also. And I really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast and I wish you all the best! Thank you and keep in touch!
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Binod:
This podcast is brought to you by the real finance mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I really hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word. You should check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile which is: Binod Shankar, FCA, CFA. Let’s keep in touch! Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com, and we’ll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events and blogs. Till the next time, onwards and upwards.
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