Episode 13: Karima Rahali
This show was created to deliver insight and inspiration for finance careers.
And nowhere is Insight more critical than when things get complex and technical. Such as the brave new world of the future, the world of artificial intelligence, machine learning, coding, automation etc.
Investment professionals must grasp the impact, education and opportunities to stay relevant.Episode #13 is Karima Rahali’s interesting personal story of a career over many domains as well as an articulate expert’s take on this new world.
Listen, learn and grow.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
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Binod:
This is Binod Shankar and you're listening to The Real Finance Mentor Podcast, from therealfinancementor.com. The Real Finance Mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers and finance, CFA and more. Youwould think, "Why this podcast?" Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your finance career, by making it one, relatable. This is not theoretical stuff. We zero in on the critical, practical issues. Number two, authentic. No bullshit, no sidestepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three, take a chartered accountant, CFA charter holder, add 17 plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10 years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full-time CFA training, add speaking, mentoring, cycling, and mountaineering and that's me. Welcome to the Real Finance Mentor. Or as I call it, RFM.
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Binod:
Hello, everyone. This is Binod Shankar, and welcome to episode number 13 of the RFM Podcast. These days everyone is talking about artificial intelligence, machine learning, and automation. Of course, if you're planning a career in finance, you're probably curious about the impact of all these on your career. Which sectors will be affected the most and why? Do I need to learn anything new? What should I learn and how can I learn? So who better to answer this question than someone who is an engineer, who broke into finance, then earned a CFA charter along the way, and now does consulting on AI/ML, et cetera? Someone like Karima Rahali.
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Binod:
I've known Karima for much of the last decade, ever since she stepped into my CFA class. She's thoughtful, patient, engaging and insightful. I've actually wanted to interview her ever since I launched the podcast, but she juggles a few balls and hence is a bit difficult to get hold of, but now we have her.
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Binod:
The guest is Karima Rahali. She is a CFA charter holder, but Karima is more than just a CFA charter holder. She actually has a very interesting background, so I'm going to read out her very impressive resume. You'll have to be patient with me, and then you'll understand why she's on this show.
She finished advanced mathematics and physics studies in Paris before doing a Master's degree in civil engineering and construction from ESTP Paris. Then after that, she did a Post-Graduate degree in International Project Management, a major in International Financial and Banking Strategies from European School of Management in France.
Then of course she entered the work field. She started work with Fortis Investments in Paris, where she was working as a specialist before she moved quickly into a research analyst in Fund of Funds, screening the universe of investible managers in the MENA equity and global fixed income markets. Karima, of course, then moved to BNP Paribas (Fortis Investments in London), where she was involved in portfolio management and research analyst activities, Fund of Funds, looking at equity and fixed income funds of up to 80 million euros.
Then she moved to Union Bancaire Privée, UBP, I hope I'm pronouncing it right in French, where she was the director, product specialist of the MENA equity fund, where the target was to increase the fund's AUM. And she was involved in road shows, in person meetings, product training, peer group analysis, reporting and portfolio performance, et cetera, et cetera.
That was her last position in corporate life way back in 2012. Then of course she moved into becoming entrepreneur of an aqua-fitness club, which is the first high end ladies-only boutique aqua-fitness and wellness studio in the GCC, which she launched in September 2013. And of course of late, for the past nearly one year plus, she's basically the owner of Deep Code AI, which provides strategic consulting in AI in Dubai, advising clients on how to manage their data using ML and DL, and advising, delivering end to end AI projects using all available technologies.
So very interesting background, very impressive resume. Welcome to the show Karima.
Karima:
Thank you, thank you Binod for the introduction.
Binod:
That took some time, by the way. You really know why you're on this show? Take a guess.
Karima:
Because of the AI.
Binod:
Not-
Karima:
Not much learning.
Binod:
I would like to say yes, but you and I share three things which... not really AI, one is entrepreneurship, the second is the fitness-
Karima:
Passion for fitness.
Binod:
... that's it. And third of course is the CFA charter which is huge and undeniable. So yeah, so a lot of things that I found out interesting that binds us together, which I didn't realize when I first met you in class, or even after that. Right. So what I want to ask you, one of the first things I really want to ask you is why the jump from civil engineering and construction to a post-graduate degree in financial and banking strategies? What was the motivation for that?
Karima:
Okay. In France, many engineers complement actually their engineering degrees by business-related degrees, that's quite normal. So to have other skills than the pure scientific and engineering side. So that's what I did, actually. Basically at the end of my Master of Science in Building Engineering, I realized that I wanted something a bit more fast-paced than typical building engineering project management, which was a very long race before having something, a full project to manage by yourself.
At that time I had one of my friends, who is also a building engineer like myself, who was working in a big bank in London. He really encouraged me to do the move, and helped me to understand better what I really wanted. So basically it's not really a jump for me, but rather a natural continuity of a career where I knew that the numbers and the technical side will still be there.
Binod:
Interesting, actually you remind me Karima of many people in the sub-continent in India, who do the engineering degree and then do an MBA or a Masters.
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
Because it's a very good combination of technical skills and how do you say organizational, people management-
Karima:
Business.
Binod:
... project management skills, isn't it. So interesting. Let's talk about your career moves. Yes, you first went to Fortis where you worked as a RFP specialist for nearly about what, slightly less than two years. But then it-
Karima:
Two years, yeah.
Binod:
... Yeah. And then you moved on as a research analyst of Fund of Funds, which is really what you talk about, what is it core finance, right? Which is what most people would love to start their careers with, especially if you are in finance. So how did you manage the move from what is essentially sales support, to research analyst?
Karima:
Yes, so this position of sales support at Fortis Investment was meant to last for two years. It was a fantastic opportunity for me to understand better the asset management industry, because I was interacting not only with the sales and marketing side, but also with the fund managers, with analyst, with traders, with compliance officers. So very quickly I realized that I really wanted to go to the technical side to understand better the nitty gritty of the investment processes, the investment strategies. I approached my boss at that time, and I clearly mentioned to her that I wanted to move to the investment side for my next step. She completely agreed with me, because she saw that I was quite different from other members in her team, that I was really hungry for the technicalities.
Karima:
Luckily enough, at that time there was a new Fund of Funds team, which was created in London, and I had the interview with the CIO there and I got the job as a fund analyst there. So that's how I did it.
Binod:
You make it sound very easy, by the way.
Karima:
Hopefully, hopefully it makes sense, actually. But definitely it's a lot of commitment and work, because I really did my part of the job. Without asking my boss I was very proactive, organizing meeting with fund managers, going through their investment processes, understanding their strategy, the stock selection, the bond selection. So it's like a commitment from your side if you really want to move to the investment side. You need to show that you are hungry for that.
Binod:
It's quite interesting that you say that, because yes you have to go over and beyond what you were initially hired to do. But then Karima, you must also have had a really good rapport with your bosses, right? Because people don't normally allow role change, because I'm sure a lot of people are searching or hunting for that particular juicy role. You probably were... even now, we have kept in touch for long andone reason is you're a very good people person. Do you think your people skills played a big role in that switch?
Karima:
Absolutely, absolutely. This is key. You need to be having a very good communication skills, to be very proactive, to establish really strong relationships with your team, with the colleagues, with your boss. That's key if you want to do any move in your career.
Binod:
Fantastic. And of course that's one of the big reasons I'm sure why you rose very fast in your career, through several banks and several roles. Now let's talk about, of course, a common topic, CFA. enough, I realized that you finished the CFA well after you left banking and finance, right?
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
Which is quite unusual. It's not impossible, it's unusual. What really motivated you to finish, wrap up and get the charter after you left banking?
Karima:
Well, the first reason for me is when I start something I really like to finish it properly. Even if I'm failing, I'm going to re-start again. I'm very determined person. If I succeed, that's it, I'm happy and I'm going to look for another opportunity. It's really in my DNA. The second big reason is that I really love the CFA curriculum, especially level two and level three. I find it's really interesting and quite exhaustive. So basically, indeed when I started the level three, it was few months before I left the banking and finance. So I got my certification a couple of months later.
Also, I was willing to do a break from my financial career, and I needed to make sure that I had the right certification and degrees to do whatever I wanted in the future. So this is like a little bit also in my DNA, for me you need to have a very strong knowledge and the right certification to be free, and to do whatever you want.
Binod:
But interestingly also Karima, I think while you were basically taking a break from your financial career, you were also raising a family, right?
Karima:
Absolutely. I was pregnant of my second baby, actually.
Binod:
Exactly, so you had a growing family, you had the CFA studies, and you were planning to open your wellness and fitness studio, which we will talk about later on on this interview.
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
So you were juggling many things at the same time. How do you do it, is my question.
Karima:
I think that I don't like to be bored. I am quite a hyper-active person, I believe. I really like to do many things to keep myself busy, I'm very curious, so I need to do several things at the same time. For me, I'm thinking in silos. This is my family, this is my career, this is my project, I'm launching a new thing, so it's completely feasible if you are really well organized and very determined and motivated as well.
Binod:
Yeah, I think your key motivation was your search for variety and something engaging and intellectually stimulating, right?
Karima:
Absolutely.
Binod:
I, also, do many projects, mainly driven by those reasons and not necessarily commercial reasons.
Karima:
Absolutely.
Binod:
Now going to the CFA journey again, because I'm sure it is huge for you. Being basically a working mom, also being an entrepreneur, trying to builda business and a brand, and then of course the CFA studies, can you tell me three key challenges you faced during CFA, and very importantly, how did you tackle these?
Karima:
Okay. So I think the first one that many CFA candidate face is the time management. When I started the level one, I was already working and married, so balancing my personal life and my professional and student life was my first challenge. I decided to organize myself really properly. Studying a few hours after my working hours, and also during the weekends with specific slots. I was giving myself from 8:00 A.M. until 7:00 P.M., then I was allocating some time for my family, for my husband and for my friends. So it is manageable if you decide to organize yourself accordingly.
The second challenge was to keep my motivation and commitment consistent. Sometimes, definitely I was feeling tired, I was feeling overwhelmed with the amount of things I had to do, so I allowed myself to rest and to take few hours here and there, but to compensate them when I was feeling fully energized, like by doubling the amount of working, studying time. This is really key. You need to be in good shape for tackling this exam, so keeping your eyes on the ball is key.
Finally, sometimes I was really feeling lost with the quantity of material that I had to review, because coming from a French engineering background, we need to read every single word in a book to be feeling ready for something. So to help myself, I decided to enroll for CFA training class, like the one that is organized here in Dubai by Kaplan Genesis, and I have to say that being with other people who are going through the same challenges as yourself is quite comforting. Not to mention the huge help that the trainers are giving us by really focusing on the key concepts and consolidating all our knowledge to be ready for the exam. So I'm very grateful for that.
Binod:
You mentioned something about your French engineering background, so A), you have an engineering background, B) it's in French, not in English, so that means English is not your native language. So in level 3, in the morning when you have the written part, the way they call the constructed response, yeah?
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
How did you manage to write quickly, concisely and clearly under huge stress?
Karima:
I think one of the engineering skills is to teach you how to be concise, to summarize, to analyze data and to summarize very quickly. I have been in an English speaking business environment since 2007 approximately, so even if it's true that I studied all in French, and I had only few English lessons here and there, I managed to learn all my financial concepts in English. So this was quick and easy for me, because I relied on my analytical skills and my engineering skills to help me to go to the point. That's I think the number one skill that's helped me in level three.
Binod:
It's interesting you say that Karima, because a few of my students, not many, a few of my students come from engineering background in CFA, and they are very analytical, very structured, and they always want to know why. Why something is, you know?
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
The U.S. GAAP vs IFRS differences in FRA drives them mad, and they don't do that well in FRA, but they do fantastically well in equities and fixed incomes and quants, and derivatives and things like that, right?
Karima:
Yeah.
Binod:
I suppose engineering background helps, not only in terms of knowledge, but also the way you think about things.
Karima:
Absolutely. Yes, that's key.
Binod:
That's key, exactly. Interesting. And then you were not content with being a banker, corporate banker in a big multi-national company, you are not okay with finishing the CFA and getting the charter, you are not even okay with raising your family. You decided hey, I want more challenges.
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
So, let me try my hand at entrepreneurship. This is very interesting and important for me because obviously you know my background. Iquitcorporate life, set up a training company and now very much focused on fitness. So my question to you, because we are people of like minds, but I want to hear your answer, why entrepreneurship? And why, specifically, entrepreneurship in fitness?
Karima:
Entrepreneurship because I saw a business opportunity in the fitness industry here in Dubai, and in the UAE in general. For the little story, in my family no one is an entrepreneur, really. I was the first one to make the slip. I still remember my parents being completely shocked when I announced to them that I wanted to open a business in fitness. But they had to trust me on that because they know that I am 100% determined. As you mentioned before, I am really a fitness freak, I have always been a very sporty professional. This is coming from my dad let's say, who is really the sporty one. I was the only one amongst my siblings to always for a jogging, race at 5:00 A.M. in the morning, cycling tour, and other challenging workouts.
My mom was always very interested in alternative beauty remedies, healthier food options. And this has passed down to me because I am still doing it right now. I'm very passionate about fitness and wellness in general, exploring alternative food for my kids as well, and tackling their intolerances. So fitness, I discovered actually aqua-biking, which is the core business of my studio today, in 2005. I was absolutely amazed by the concept, because it was combining everything that I liked. Water, I am a very good swimmer and I love working out in the water, and the workout, which can be, depending on your liking, easy, medium or hard.
I was also very interested in bringing something unique in the region, because back in 2013 there was no studio of aqua-biking as such. They did not know what was aqua-biking, and I was very excited to introduce something which is full of benefit and which was an alternative to the typical, regular workout. So you can work out in another way.
Binod:
It is interesting that the more I listen to you, the more I feel that we have a lot more in common than I initially suspected.
Karima:
Apparently.
Binod:
Seriously, because even if you think about my passion for fitness, and training and education, it all came from my mom. She was a college professor, very much a health and fitness focus, and of course I grew up watching her, she was a single mother. So I think the influence that parents have on kids is vastly under-rated, and they will have a huge impact especially in the formative years.
Karima:
Absolutely. This is like your first foundation, so you are growing with this, and you are making it your own the more you are aging.
Binod:
Exactly. You look back and you see the connections, and the pros and cons, right? Okay, so much about your career, banking, CFA, entrepreneurship, fitness. Now of course I'm going to get into an area that is relatively new, and it is a huge amount of discussion and training and complexity going on. It's basically automation, right? Artificial intelligence and machine learning.
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
Of course you're an engineer, so it would be more natural for you to go that way, but still, with this background of yours, how and why did you get interested in AI and ML?
Karima:
As I mentioned before, I was taking a break from my financial career, but I made sure to keep myself up to date for the financial market. I was regularly attending CFA Emirates Society events, so once my studio was up and running I started to get more interested into the field of robo-advisory. So robo-advisory, robo-advisors are financial advisors with online portfolio management services. I was really intrigued by the fact that they have disrupted the wealth management and portfolio management area, which was actually my previous job. To understand the technical side of this tech tool, I decided to enroll to a machine learning training, because you know me, I like numbers, I like to understand a little bit more.
Binod:
Of course.
Karima:
It was an absolute eye opener for me. I realized the extent of the application of AI and machine learning, not only in finance, but also to all the other industries and sectors. Such as, for example, the automative industry with the self driving car, the health care, the e-commerce. So the more I was trained on the machine learning, the more I wanted to learn more. There are a variety of things to do, so I got myself training online, offline, here and in Europe to understand really well the foundation of these technologies.
Binod:
Great. It's interesting because you come with that background. But also, going forward, if you look at the main three areas of focus in the CFA, what CFA prepares you for. You have asset management, you have wealth management and you have investment research. What is your idea, what is your outlook on over the next, not too long, say the next five years, of AI and ML in these three areas that I've mentioned. What do you think is going to change, how and why?
Karima:
The impact of AI and ML in these three areas will definitely be profound. I really believe that it has already started with hedge fund managers and quant managers, using algorithmic trading whereby they use an AI-based trading system to execute trades for their clients at the best prices, and at a faster speed, without upsetting the market. This AI-based system is continuing its learning, and it optimizes the trades.
For me, I believe that the main game changer actually will come from the use of alternative data, or big data. What we call big data is data that have large volume andwe are calling them big data because of their volume, their velocity and their variety. So volume, you have data which is sent or received with sizes around exabytes, which is billions of gigabytes. Velocity, you have data which is sent or received at near real time, or real time. And variety, the data which is received is under the format of structured data, like CSV files, as we know, or un-structured data such as satellite imaging or audio recording, et cetera.
The use of these new sources of data by investment research departments will give them a huge informational advantage in the sense that it will help them uncover new information which is not contained in traditional financial sources such as quarterly corporate earnings or the low frequency macro-economic data that we are having.
But also, it can help them to uncover the same information, but at an earlier time. If this investment research department used the machine learning algorithm, this algorithm will quickly analyze news feeds for them, Tweets, they will process earning statements, they will scrape websites, and recognize patterns and trends, which will enable this investment research department to make better informed investment decisions, and structure more efficient investment strategies. So-
Binod:
Sounds interesting. Sorry, go on.
Karima:
... I just wanted to give you, for example, one example of the use of this alternative data, which is the sentiment analysis. This is done through an algorithm called natural language processing. How it works, briefly, is that this algorithm has to first extract the identity of the speaker, then it establishes, for example if it is working on a Tweet, it establishes the topic being discussed, what we call a theme. It can be a Fed hike, it can be Corona Virus crisis, anything. Then a sentiment score is assigned to the article using the technique of NLP, which is called bag of words. This kind of model is used by some companies to trade, for example, broad market indices, where sometimes they are given daily directional indicators, consolidating sentiment across many social media sources to produce a buy or sell signal on a specific index like S&P500, for example.
Binod:
My question here was, and I don’t want to sound like a devil's advocate here, I'm not a technical guy of course, is okay, so you are working in investment firm, you are using NLP and big data and sentiment analysis you are somehow able to create alpha for your clients, right?
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
As in you're able to beat the market, right? But what's to prevent your competition copying this eventually, after some time, and then you lose, gradually over time, your alpha or your secret sauce? This is just another tool that could be copied. What's your view?
Karima:
First of all, you need to know that not all the data has alpha, for sure. So you need to choose the right data which will have enough alpha to make it either as a viable stand-alone strategy, or combine it with other signals to yield a viable portfolio strategy. So the skill of a quant manager or anyone who is using this data is to extract the right data which has alpha, to extract data which is less well known, let's say, and to work on different types of processed data. For example, fundamental investors will prefer definitely processed signals and insight instead of a large amount of raw data. They will have that through a research report, an alert or threat ideas. But someone who is more into processing the data will use raw data, or semi-processed formats of the data.
So the quality of the data is really key for you to be able to leverage and to use your machine learning algorithm properly. That's where I think the differences between people will take place. Everyone has access to the data in different ways, but the quality of the data, the frequency of the data, the latency, the format is really,the technical aspect of the data is key for you to have something which is providing alpha.
Binod:
And I suppose what you said earlier, very interesting, you said one way that you can maintain alpha, or you can maintain your competitive edge, is because there's so much un-structured data out there, right Karima?
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
There's satellite images, and weather data, and blogs, and vlogs, and voice data, exactly. There are so many ways in which you can extract information from the data, and model and predict and beat the market I suppose, yeah?
Karima:
Yes, true.
Binod:
One question I have been asked a lot, by the way, especially these days. The one question I keep asking myself is okay, so you are a CFA candidate or you are a CFA charter holder, you have finished your course.
Karima:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Binod:
You are very good with your equities, and FRA and derivatives, and hopefully you're ethical as well, right?
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
With all this, pretty important. Let's not forget ethics in the age of automation.
Karima:
Definitely.
Binod:
Yeah. So why would I be bothered, why would he or she be bothered about learning about AI or ML? I know my investing tools and techniques, I know the markets, I know myself, hopefully being a student of behavioral finance, blah, blah, blah. So first of all, I don't have an engineering background, I don't know anything about coding, or not much about mathematics or statistics, or in my case I didn't even know much Excel, to be honest. What has AI and ML got to do with me, to add value where I am working? Can I add value? In other words should I acquire new skills, and are those skills of any value when there are experienced quant guys out there, with degrees in quantitative finance from fancy universities. What kind of impact can I make, you know what I'm saying?
Karima:
Yeah, definitely. I think that inan era of increasing AI and ML, a finance professional definitely needs to have, to be familiar with many machine learning algorithms, to know their pros and cons, without going into the coding part. You don't need to go into coding and go deep, this is like you can leave it for other people. But definitely you need to understand this algorithm, and their use in financial forecasting. But more than that, you need to develop an innovative mindset, and creative problem solving skills to find new ways to create value with the insights from machine learning algorithm.
A CFA candidate or charter holder needs to quickly adapt to the changing environment, and also be able to leverage on the economic value delivery of AI and machine learning. If you are not a technical person, you need to get yourself at least the basic maths to start in machine learning.
Binod:
I was about to come to that. So yes, I agree with the mindset, I agree with that you must adapt to your environment, I agree that you have to sharpen your domain knowledge. But what do I need to go back to? So do I need to learn more of regression analysis, or time series, or probability concepts, or I don't know, set theory, or linear programming? And what do I need to learn in terms of technical skills, apart from the mindset, to basically make an impact?
Karima:
Starts with the machine learning algorithm for sure. In machine learning there are several categories, like the most basic ones are for example the supervised learning, which is the regression that we know, the linear regression. But there are other kinds of regression like lasso regression, which is dealing with non-linear relationships, classification. This does not need to be very proficient in maths and stats, but definitely you need the basics of maths. Coding, it's not like the hard core coding kind of things, you need a base in Python language to understand how to implement, for example.
But definitely much more than this technical skills you need also to develop your market intuition, because no data scientist will be able to give, even with the best insights from machine learning algorithm, will be able to design efficient, tradeable investment strategies. So the market intuition and the knowing the underlying data that you are dealing with are key actually, to combine it with machine learning algorithm. So combining your domain expertise and your financial expertise with a basic understanding of machine learning algorithm can help you a lot.
Binod:
Exactly. So what I keep telling a lot of CFA students, and charter holders is domain expertise is absolutely critical.
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
If you know enough of pharma, or aviation, or hospitality industries, if you really know your stuff then you don't need to know much coding or math or statistics probably, you can really interact with the quant analyst and basically craft a solution together.
Karima:
And we have anyway a good base in the CFA curriculum, in terms of probability and stats. So it's a good base, you can brush up on your math skills, and then you can definitely go into pre-built machine learning algorithms and get to use them. But the key is the market intuition, the financial expertise, and combining both to leverage on this insight from AI and machine learning.
Binod:
I was looking at your resume Karima, and right at the bottom you have additional key skills and competencies. And then in that you have languages, okay fine, native French and Arabic speaker, fluent English, conversational Spanish. You didn't tell me how the Spanish, we can talk about that later, right? And then you have IT/financial tools, and oh my God, you have Python, C-born, Mat-lot, Num-pi, Jupiter, Notebook, Spark, Latent 0, Lipa, Dika, log. The only thing I could understand in this whole was Microsoft Office. So basically you're saying that CFA candidates and charter holders, we don't need to know all of this, right?
Karima:
Yeah, absolutely. You need basic understanding of Python, and this is libraries used in Python, like Num-pi, C-born and all of these things.
Binod:
Oh.
Karima:
So this can be learned. I have no issues with CFA candidates learning that very quickly.
Binod:
Okay, fantastic. Interesting. Right. So I think you have experienced a lot in life, corporate life, entrepreneurship, fitness, of course on the family side, on the personal side as well. You have gone from what Morocco, to France, to London, to UAE. Have I missed out any location?
Karima:
No, no, that's perfect. Yeah, exactly.
Binod:
You are multi-lingual, you are versatile, I think I've mentioned almost everything, I hope I've not missed out much. My question to you is for those listening to this podcast, what are your three key lessons in career and life Karima, what do you think?
Karima:
The first one definitely is the passion. I know that a lot of people are saying that, but it's really true. You need to be passionate about what you are doing to keep the motivation high and the commitment high, and also to help you drive people around you if you are a team leader or manager.
Binod:
I'm going to jump in here. Sorry to interrupt, but how do you know what you're passionate about when you're young, when you're in your twenties, like most listeners of this podcast. You are a fresh graduate, first job, how do you figure out what really drives you? How did you figure it out?
Karima:
You experiment with things. I think it's critical. Very few people know exactly what they want to do at 20 years old.
Binod:
Exactly.
Karima:
So you need to experiment with different kinds of things, and see which one is really exciting you and making you feel that okay, this is what I want to do. Maybe along the way, as it was for me, I was very excited about the building engineering path, but at the end I realized that no, this is not for me, I wanted something a little bit more fast-paced. So don't be scared to experiment with things, this is the best way for you to fine tune your preferences and to find your passion, actually. And you can have several passions, you are not limited to one. So as I said, I am in AI and machine learning, but I absolutely love also the alternative food options and the whole subject about intolerances and allergies. I'm having several passions driving me, you need something to keep your motivation and your drive and your ambition as well.
Binod:
So one was the passion. What other lessons would you say, for career and life.
Karima:
Okay, curiosity is definitely, definitely very important.
Binod:
Be curious, yeah?
Karima:
Be curious. Yeah. Be curious. Try to learn as much as possible. This will help you to always improve your skill and keep yourself motivated. Try to explore different things and to understand the why of these things, to keep yourself going.
The final lesson, it's to be grateful as well, for what you have already in life, in your career. But keep yourself focused and determined to explore every other option that could make your life better and happier.
Binod:
I think the last point is so very important Karima, and especially in these times.
Karima:
yeah.
Binod:
A lot of locked down, and the pandemic devastating entire countries, economies, industries, companies. One should be grateful, and one should count one's blessings I always tell my colleagues and friends and connections.
Karima:
Very true.
Binod:
Because there's always something you should be happy for, and that makes you more productive and more motivated and more positive, and like you said makes you happier as well.
Karima:
Yeah, yeah. Definitely. And we tend to forget that, unfortunately, because in our daily routine and our life and ambitions and things like that, we forget to stop and just be grateful of what we have then. And then continue pursuing whatever we are doing anyway.
Binod:
Fantastic. Well, it's time to bring this very delightful interview Karima to a close. Thank you so much Karima for sharing your experiences and your views, because they're quite varied from banking to finance to CFA to entrepreneurship, fitness and of course very important topics of AI and ML and investment management and trading. And of course how do you approach life and career as well. Very important lessons for every youngster, for everyone not just in terms of young of age.
Karima:
Yes.
Binod:
I'll watch your progress with considerable interest.
Karima:
Thank you so much.
Binod:
And probably pick your brains now and then for tips and tricks of AI and ML, because I am not a techie at all.
Karima:
With pleasure. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Binod:
Thanks Karima.
Karima:
Thank you. Bye.
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Binod:
This podcast is brought to you by The Real Finance Mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word and be sure to check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile, which is Binod Shankar CFA. Let's keep in touch. Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com and we'll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events, and blogs. Till the next time- onwards and upwards.
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