Episode 9: Fadi Al Said
One of the coolest things about my role as a Podcast Host is that I often end up having a brilliant chat with extraordinarily successful people who are also fellow CFA charter holders and good friends. I also learn a lot about people, companies, and industries.
On The Real Finance Mentor’s 9th episode I corner Fadi Al Said CFA who is a big boy with Lazard Asset Management, and we chat about a raft of topics:
How does one decide early on a career in asset management?
Also, incredibly, how do you stay (and rise in that sector) for two decades?
How did the charter help? Why the MBA after the CFA?
What does Lazard look for when hiring analysts?
What traits and skills do you need to break into asset management/research?
Is Fadi really related to celebrity singer Nancy Ajram (!!)?
Etc. etc.
Listen, learn, grow.
PRESS PLAY TO LISTEN:
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
[Tune]
Binod:
This is Binod Shankar and you're listening to The Real Finance Mentor Podcast, from therealfinancementor.com. The Real Finance Mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers and finance, CFA and more. You would think, "Why this podcast?" Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your finance career, but making it one, relatable. This is not theoretical stuff. We zero in on the critical practical issues. Number two, authentic. No bullshit, no sidestepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three, take a chartered accountant, CFA charter holder, add 17 plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10 years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full-time CFA training, add speaking, mentoring, cycling, and mountaineering and that's me. Welcome to the Real Finance Mentor. Or as they call it, RFM.
[Tune]
Binod:
Hello there, boys and girls, this is Binod Shankar and you are listening to The Real Finance Mentor podcast.
Welcome to Episode # 9.
I was checking my notes recently and I first met my guest in 2011 at a local CFA event IN DUBAI. Fadi Al Said was a speaker on regional markets and he was the standout - a friendly chap talking with insight, clarity, and honesty. And we have kept in touch since.
Who knew that nine years later he would be a guest on my podcast.
Welcome to the show, Fadi.
[Tune]
Binod:
I'm going to talk today to Fadi Al Said, CFA. Fadi Al Said is a Managing Director with Lazard Asset Management in Dubai. But before I go into the conversation with him, let me talk about his resume, a quite impressive resume, actually. Education, University of Jordan BSc in Economics, followed by MBA from Cass Business School in Finance. And then, of course, a stellar career in asset management. He was investment officer with Arab Bank and then Head of Research with Bank Al-Jazira before he moved to becoming a Senior Investment Manager with Damac Invest. And then he moved to NBD Investment Bank where he was Director, Asset Management. He rose even further to work with ING Investment Management as Senior Fund Manager and Head of Investments and he was a lead manager of the ING MENA Fund and, also, Director of the Fund Manager and Head of MENA and Frontierequities. In 2014, he moved from ING to Lazard where he's right now, the Managing Director and heads the MENA Equity Fund.
Welcome to the show, Fadi.
Fadi Al Said:
Thank you for having me, Binod. It's a pleasure.
Binod:
It's a pleasure having you here.
Binod:
Now tell me when I googled, Fadi Al Said a few days ago, you were linked to Nancy Ajram, this famous, famous-
Fadi Al Said:
Oh my god.
Binod:
... Lebanese singer. Is it true? Is there a connection?
Fadi Al Said:
I hope it's just you're joking, man. I hope you're joking. I'm not sure. I don't think so. Not to my knowledge.
Binod:
Man, you look glamorous. Imagine being connected to Nancy Ajram. I wish I was in that category. Anyway, thank you for coming to the show. And I've got a whole list of questions to ask you.
Fadi Al Said:
Of course.
Binod:
Very impressive career, very impressive background, what you achieved, and I'm sure lots of youngsters who are either planning a career in investment management or planning to the CFA or doing the CFA or maybe a CFA charter holder would benefit from your experience. I'm going to ask you one question, which I'm sure you've been asked before. Why did you choose a career in investments, of all the fields that you had before you? Why?
Fadi Al Said:
Well, I think it's just ... And before going into maybe the reasons that developed, I actually, as I worked further, I started to realize more and more the reasons and why it matched my personality. I think I was always attached to this kind of a very kind of fast-paced, moving workspace. I remember when I used to watch the news, when I was a kid with my father and then the economy part came and they just showed these kinds of people panicking and then using their phones and shouting at each other, I always was intrigued by this kind of fast pace.
Binod:
You must've been a weird kid, man. I know that kind of-
Fadi Al Said:
It was always interesting, and I always had this question, "Why are these guys ... They're shouting and what kind of excitement they have every day?" This is, I think, where I I think I was very curious to know more about it. And I have to say that I was fortunate enough to be given an opportunity to be in this field. But I think what attracts me the most to this is the fact that I don't like kind of a routine job where do you come, do the same thing every day, and then you wait for three, four years to be able to get an opportunity to do something else.
The fact that you're working in investment means you get to learn about industries, get to know about what works, what does not work. You're always up to what's happening in the world, what's the latest investment trends. You meet a lot of people. This develops a lot of skills, I would say, in social and soft skills, in terms of reading body languages, dealing with people, presenting to people, getting to ask successful investors, successful officers in company how they built their businesses. This kind of exposure, just in a way it gives you ... It's just you get to learn a lot. And the learning curve is very steep.
And this is something that I believe.. It just suits me. It suits me this. I'm always like intrigued to know more about industries. I always like to know, "How did these guys manage to do this?" I'm very fortunate to be in a sector where, in a way, it embodies and it magnifies these ... And this is, I think, the most important thing. And I always realize how fortunate I am to be in the sector.
Binod:
Yeah, yeah. Interesting, when I was looking through your resume, Fadi, right from when you were in Arab Bank, which was like, what, 1998, to where you are now in 2020, what, 22 years, you've been in investment management. This is a rare, by the way, especially in this region, where specialization is so difficult and very few people actually manage to stay in one area. They keep jumping from investment management maybe to investment banking, maybe to private banking. You don't see a coherent, what do call you call it, career path? How did you manage that?
Fadi Al Said:
It's very hard for someone to say that I've actually structured my career steps.
Binod:
Planned it from the beginning.
Fadi Al Said:
You have to be fortunate. Sometimes, the right things happen at the right time and you're there and you jumped at the opportunity. But I would say that from the beginning of my career, I always was involved in a decision-making part of the investment process, which is being a part of a career that actually results in you doing the work and eventually taking a call, what to invest in, how to invest in. So, I think this always ... And when I started in this career, it was just a nascent industry in the region.So there was, I would say more, freeway, more flexibility in you pushing for certain directions.
Binod:
Can I say that you almost grew with the sector?
Fadi Al Said:
Actually, I was fortunate to say that when I started my career, I actually came exactly before the dotcom crash. There was a lot of lessons to learn from that. Then, I actually was lucky enough to be part of the beginning of the what you call the growth and the serious growth that happened in the MENA, specifically the GCC market. I was part of the boom and bust that followed that and the financial crisis. So I would say part of the early, I would say, institutionalization of this industry where you started to see more bigger investment companies and bigger role of asset management and more institutional asset management of the region.
Binod:
You were able to ride the wave, so to speak.
Fadi Al Said:
I was exposed to it. I was exposed to it. And it was a very, very important learning curve that shaped my career in investment philosophy, I have to say.
Binod:
Right. We'll come back to the career part soon, Fadi, but I want to talk about the education part specifically. Let's go back to the education, which is, of course you have an MBA from Cass Business School and you have a CFA charter. By the way, which one came first, the CFA or the MBA?
Fadi Al Said:
The CFA came before the MBA.
Binod:
Before the MBA. Let's talk about CFA first. Let's go in the right order. Why did you pick CFA, and very importantly, what are the lessons and challenges you've learned along the way?
Fadi Al Said:
See, I think there's a lot of common reasons, why would anyone go for the CFA. I think the fact that the CFA is a well-recognized, well-respected brand, I think the most prestigious certificate in the finance, is a consensus. Now these are the things that are common between every ... if you ask this question, I think you have the same answer. For me, I think my experience in the sector, usually, when I realized when you have the three letters on your card or on your CV, that means that you save a good chunk, a good part of the interaction that you need to prove that you know what a DCF is.
Binod:
Certain things are taken care of.
Fadi Al Said:
Yes. I would say that the finance competency, and the fact that you are aware of the infrastructure or the tools you require for you to be an analyst or a manager or an investment banker or that, so this, it clears a good part of that. I think it's also, for me, it's always part of the learning. As you know, I graduated from Economics, so I of course, have exposure to finance, but I wasn't specialized in finance. I thought that would be a very important, incremental addition to my education and just sort of solodifyingmy finance skills and tools.
Binod:
Right. And of course, now the exam part, the level one, two and three, if you remember anything about the exam, which I'm sure was a long time ago, but how was your journey, challenges, resolutions? Tell me more about it.
Fadi Al Said:
Yeah. I think, see, I started the CFA, I already had a family. I was already working. And of course, you know working in this field, it means long hours, very limited time for you to be able to do other than work or other than family-related stuff. And sometimes, I think about it, "Did I really study this hard? Did I actually... Did it take me...", I cannot sometimes imagine the amount of-
Binod:
It happens to me as well. When I teach classes, I'm like, "Did I really study this? I must have studied this."
Fadi Al Said:
When you go back, I just thank God that I had enough energy and consistency to do it because it requires consistency. It's a long process. But I think it's just, I needed to do it. And I thought it's a good compliment to what I do. And I remember it was like, it took... I had dedicated three hours every day, two to three hours every day. And of course, with weekends, I didn't do anything. But it's being consistent. I finished Level one and Level two. Then I took a break. And I think I finished Level three maybe three years after that because I was involved in a major kind-of.. There was a career change and there was a lot of things happening, so I took a break, but it requires... It's doable. I don't think it's hard or challenging. It's all about consistency and dedication. And anybody with a normal IQ, I think can do a CFA if he has a consistency.
Binod:
And of course, obvious question I would ask you, obvious question, has it helped you in your career?
Fadi Al Said:
It definitely helped... I wouldn't say that it was a reason for any job I got or a promotion I got or a career, even, or changing a company I worked for, never. I don't think it was a critical factor, but what I think, how it helped me, it really gave me a lot of tools. And it's all about getting more and more tools in this sector. And the more tools you get, the more ability you have to shape and reach with your own investment philosophy or your own investment persona.
Binod:
Correct.
Fadi Al Said:
It definitely gave me a lot of tools that sharpened my skills, that helped me in reaching, I would say, helped me make better investment decisions, helped me shape a better investment process. Definitely, I look at it as a very, very important tool, very important tool.
Binod:
And maybe when, Fadi, for investors and clients, when they see Fadi Al Said, CFA, maybe for them also it is a bit of reassurance that we have a guy who knows this handling our money, in a way, from the institutional perspective.
Fadi Al Said:
I totally think that is the case, especially that, as I said, CFA is a well-known brand. And one of the, also a key aspect about the CFA, it's not only about the financial skills that you get or the knowledge. It's also now the focus on ESG. And CFA, whether it's through a lot of the events they do and the ethics part that everyone who studies CFA, ethics is very important. And actually, the fact that also the CFA Institute pushes its members to always look to improve the markets, to always look to improve the practices and to enhance and push for more efficiency and more transparency. This is something that also clients appreciate. They know that you understand your fiduciary duty. They know that it's within your guidelines, it's what you signed up for is actually to work in your client's interest, to look for more enhancement, more transparency, more visibility, efficient market, ethics, better corporate governance.
These are now increasingly important with clients. I think definitely, it enhances and improves us, for sure.
Binod:
I agree with you, yeah. That was the end of the CFA journey. And then, of course, you did this prestigious MBA in Finance from Cass Business School. Tell me more. What was the motivation for an MBA, especially after you've just finished a grueling, what do you call, very relevant qualification for investment, ie. CFA? What made you go into MBA and what are the lessons you learned from MBA when you came out of it?
Fadi Al Said:
When I started my MBA, some people asked me... usually, we take an MBA because it just maybe lays the ground for you to make a bigger shift in your career. At that time, I was already heading an investment team within ING. I don't think I was looking for a big step-
Binod:
Career boost or something.
Fadi Al Said:
Honestly, what I wanted to get from the MBA is to increase my exposure in terms of networking with people from different sectors. The main reason I wanted to do the MBA is to, first of all, freshen up my exposure to some subjects like marketing, like management, strategy. It's just also a part of the continuous education, and most importantly, networking and meeting people from different industries, which I'm glad to say that I ended up with very close friends till now. It's something that also added.
I learned from a lot of people, from very well-experienced people from different sectors. You shared experiences, you worked with teams, you were exposed to case studies that also enriches your ability to make better decisions and to be exposed to some interesting challenges and different aspects. It's just trying to complement a set of skills, not to only be focused on finance, but to have these other soft skills, other exposures that were, I think, also very important.
Binod:
It's a complimentary set of qualifications. You have this technical depth from CFA and the tools and techniques. And then you have the overlay of obviously management skills, leadership skills, networking, alumni network, which you have from the MBA.
Fadi Al Said:
Exactly, exactly.
Binod:
Now that you've talked about skills, I want to talk about something very important. You obviously have hired lots of people. You've mentored people as an analyst, junior managers along the way. Now, what are the three top skill gaps you see in young finance professionals? Because we talked about that before the interview, what you look for in people you hire and why. So, what do you look for? What is the secret sauce of working at Lazard with you?
Fadi Al Said:
Now, I think that's a very interesting question, and maybe we will have this discussion. It's always a debate, how do you reach the shortlist of sample, of candidates that are actually are in line with what you're looking for? I wouldn't say that there's right or wrong, or there's a kind of a secret formula. I think there's more of a... There's a part that I think you will see a big overlap between all companies, that there is a specific skillset you're required to do a specific job. CFA, of course, helps you knowing that this guy knows what he's talking about, the education. There's certain things that I think that you need to have. I wouldn't say that it's a must, the CFA, for instance, for you to get, but I would say that it helps.
The part relating to skills and tools and education is important, but they are not what actually determines how to pick a candidate. The most important thing I have to say for us is someone that fits the investment culture and the team unity. Because we operate usually in small teams, so it's very important for you to pick someone that shares similar kind of, I would say, direction or characteristics because you want to keep the unity and the synergy between the team. So, for instance, what applies for our team might not apply for other teams.
Binod:
What do you look for here?
Fadi Al Said:
Well, okay. From in terms of personal traits, we look for, for instance, humility, independence, consistency. And when I say independence and consistency, they are very important. You need ability to be independent and have an independent view that is not really influenced bywhat the market thinks, what the sell side thinks, what other investors thinks. This is a very, very critical thing that we look for in candidates. You will see humility. Unfortunately, our sector, in finance, banking, usually-
Binod:
It's not known for humble people, is it?
Fadi Al Said:
It's not known, yeah. It's usually, I would say the ego part is a little bit on the higher side.
Binod:
Exactly, exactly.
Fadi Al Said:
I would say that you will see, I think, that, for instance, when it comes to our team at Lazard, there's a lot of humility. It's low profile. You don't see us making a lot of noise. And this is something that we look for, because especially in the market, when you're dealing with the market, some ego sometimes... or if you have a successful bet sometimes, it creates this... you'll sense that you are in control. And no one is in control of the markets. Even the best investors will have their lessons.
Binod:
You start thinking that you're a genius.
Fadi Al Said:
And sometimes you have to take serious reality checks with the market to realize that you need to have to have this humility and to be able to accept that you made a mistake or to accept your defeat and learn from it. So, this is the most important thing I look for.
Binod:
Independence of thought, agreed, humility and an ego that is well-managed, apart from the CFA. What else do you look for?
Fadi Al Said:
Consistency, I highlighted consistency. See, consistency is the secret recipe for successful investment professionals.
Binod:
What do you mean by consistency?
Fadi Al Said:
Consistency. I'll give you an example, Mr. Warren Buffett. By no means I'm trying to benchmark. Nobody can. But if you look at his investment discipline or you look at how he picks a company, anyone with finance 101 can easily understand his approach, can easily look at the financial metrics he uses. You know why people fail in actually following Warren Buffet? Because they're not consistent, because nobody follows the same thing over and over and over again. And no matter what people claim about consistency, it varies, the levels of consistency.
Binod:
Discipline.
Fadi Al Said:
Discipline and consistency is the hardest. Independence, discipline, consistency, I would say the hardest things to find in investment professionals these days. I would say there's a lot of factors. Of course, Warren Buffet manages-
Binod:
Of course.
Fadi Al Said:
... more sticky money. He's able to do that. When you're managing clients' money, usually, you have to... There's other factors to look for. But at least the intention to be independent, consistent and disciplined is very, very critical, I think.
Binod:
Right, right, right. Independence, consistency, humility, lack of an ego. In fact, when I came into your office, I think I mentioned it to you before the interview, I was struck by how low profile the Lazard offices are. And then I asked you this very important... Is there a global Lazard culture? And you said that there was.
Fadi Al Said:
Yes.
Binod:
Can you talk briefly about that?
Fadi Al Said:
Yeah, I would say, from my interactions with a lot of teams, my interaction with the emerging market teams, which are part of... You can easily notice that the humility is something you could easily see there. For instance, my boss, James Donald, for instance, who's known to be one of the key people if you talk about the emerging markets, his humility and his, like I would say, low profile is striking. The fact that it's just something that ... It's really something that you can notice and something even a lot of people who deal with these investment teams can notice, the humility, the focus.
Also, I mentioned to you that people tend to stay longer with the company and this, in a way, created or rooted this culture, the investment culture, and also the culture of the company. So even when you look at consistency and the focus on fundamentals, you see the ability, the fact that also we, as a house, we deal with more mainly institutional clients who tend to have longer term horizons. That means that also you have ability to be consistent-
Binod:
True, true.
Fadi Al Said:
... more independent and more disciplined. And the fact that a lot of the strategies, also, are focused on a longterm focus-
Binod:
Long-term, right.
Fadi Al Said:
... very, very, very disciplined to their investment process. This is actually something that is very common. And also, what is also something that you don't find in other asset managers is we don't have a CIO in the company.
Binod:
You mentioned that.
Fadi Al Said:
And that means we don't have a unified view.
Binod:
Which is deliberate, you said, right?
Fadi Al Said:
It's deliberate also for other teams to have the independence. This actually even pushes for more independence, more conviction. You'll see this also opens more room for debate between research, between other teams. And of course, when you have debate, conflicting views, you learn. You learn, you sometimes you get to know something you are not aware of it, and this enriches also your ability to make better decisions and better investment decisions.
Binod:
Right. So now, for example, assuming that I'm a fresh CFA charter holder or a CFA candidate and I come to you, Binod Shankar. I'm applying for a job at Lazard. And you'd have in your mind all this, confidence, independence, humility, skepticism. How do you test for this? How do you assess them for these things? How are you going to know whether Binod Shankar is really worth getting into Lazard?
Fadi Al Said:
There's nothing better than a face-to-face interview. The problem is you have to have a specific screening method to be able to shortlist people. Maybe the first maybe level of screening would be just to make sure the guy has the infrastructure of what it takes to become an investment professional. CFA's part of it, not necessarily the main part of it, the education, maybe the internship, the experiences, the way he positions/communicates his CV. I wouldn't say that you have to write essays on what you want to do and what you aspire for, because sometimes you overdo it. And in a way, it seems like a little bit pretentious.
Especially on this level, I always appreciate a very straight to the point CV that highlights your objectives, what you've done, what you want to achieve, and very brief communication, because you have to take into consideration that no one is going to read... Honestly, if you have 1,000 CVs, you're not going to read six pages CVs, 6,000 pages.
Binod:
I'll give you a CV. It's concise. It's comprehensive. You spoke to him on the phone. Good communication skills, clear. So, I'm now at the interview table with you.
Fadi Al Said:
Okay. Before talking on the phone, as we said, we screen for qualified CVs in terms of skills. And then I think there's an important level that as we speak, we're trying to finalize and formulate, because it evolves all the time, is to have some kind of a set of subjective questions that you send to them that does not have right or wrong answers, that you give them leeway to add some-
Binod:
Give me an example or examples.
Fadi Al Said:
There's a lot it. For instance I would ask him a question, for instance. I would put a painting and I would say, "What do you see in this painting?" Say-
Binod:
And what are you expecting?
Fadi Al Said:
I'm not going to say what I'm expecting, because maybe it's going to be a question, but I'll give you an example. For instance, a bottom liner will have a different answer than a guy who like to go around the subject. A pretentious guy will have a different answer from an independent guy. And there are some very interesting findings you'll see. When you ask these kind of questions, very vague, subjective, open questions, you give them space to express themselves. And it's a good tool for you to see who's pretentious, who's genuine, who's himself. See, the most important thing, you need to be yourself.
Binod:
Correct.
Fadi Al Said:
Sometimes, you can just give me maybe three letters, just one sentence an answer, because this is what you feel like answering and it just clicks.
Binod:
Okay. I'm through the CV, I'm through your top five or six questions, the painting answer, suppose I give the right answer, I'm cleared. Now a next step, I assume, is the interview. What are you assessing? Well, I know what you're assessing me for. You probably will tell me, but how do you go about it? Are you going to ask them to do case studies or evaluations or writing a report or interviews, of course?
Fadi Al Said:
Usually, after we finish the second part, I would say that we have reached a good idea about this candidate in terms of there's a lot of things now, a wealth of questions that you'd like to ask. And maybe the final part is seeing how the interaction relating to certain questions, how he portrays himself, how he presents himself. In interviews, sometimes you put some pressure to see how-
Binod:
Yes, of course.
Fadi Al Said:
And it's not to grill anyone, but just you put some pressure to see the conviction, because I see a lot... This is a recommendation or advice. If you believe in something, don't change it because someone is pressuring. If you believe in it, you believe in it. Nobody will... Maybe not that, but I think, for us at least, we want you to be yourself. We want you to have a conviction. And actually, we look at people with conviction that can stand up for the conviction.
And the last step after doing that... Assuming now we have a pretty good idea he's qualified in terms of skills, he has shown some kind of characteristics that are in line with what we are looking for in the interview. It confirmed our view. Then it's very important... We like to have him to meet all the team-
Binod:
Team members.
Fadi Al Said:
And all the teams should say yes.
Binod:
Makes sense, yeah.
Fadi Al Said:
Because he's going to work with a small team and there needs to be the chemistry. There needs to be the kind of synergy. It's important for all the team members to say yes.
Binod:
So, I know a lot of things we talked about are amix of traits and skills. It's not as straightforward, but for someone who's looking to enter the investment management industry, whether with Lazard or anybody else, like you said, some of the criteria you use are probably common across other asset management houses, what should he be doing before he even applies, apart from the CFA journey, of course?
Fadi Al Said:
Okay. I would... And this is something that usually you will see. If someone has the passion for it, you will see that he is very, very involved and busy in being up-to-date with what's happening in the world. He might even have his own portfolio.
Binod:
Portfolio, yeah.
Fadi Al Said:
He might have his own model portfolio. He has already made... you don't have to have a job to cover a company, by the way.
Binod:
No, no. You don't.
Fadi Al Said:
See, you'll see people who actual cover companies and did research because they like it. I would expect there is wealth of information. Now with podcasts, of course, you're adding to this huge library that's growing. There's a lot of books and experiences from successful investors. I would advise everyone to read books for great investors, to read about investment bubbles, crashes, what caused them. This enriches your investment personality.
Binod:
Rather than saying, "I'm passionate about finance," which every Tom, Dick, and Harry likes to say, passionate about finance, "Well, show me what you have done."
Fadi Al Said:
Exactly.
Binod:
Or "Show me what you've read," isn't it?
Fadi Al Said:
See, proactiveness in this sector is very key and no one develops yourself rather than you. You could have a great mentor. It helps. Working for a good company. It helps. But believe me, you have wealth of information that you can develop yourself and you can bridge any gap in experience if you actually put an extra effort.
Binod:
So, now we've talked about education. We talked about the career part and the skills required, how people can fill the gaps. Let's get back to you now. We met about eight years ago, and then we met again a year ago. And I noticed that you had made a significant change in your lifestyle. And because I'm so much, as you know, very much into health and fitness and things like that, what triggered you to lose weight and live healthy and very importantly, because again, going back to this whole Warren Buffet and consistency thing, how did you stick to it?
Fadi Al Said:
Excellent. That's a very interesting question. Yeah. I just have to say, just maybe to quantify this, I lost close to 54 kilos, the biggest chunk over nine months when I started in 2014. If I take a step back, I always like to have targets in my life and put a timeline for it. Because I let myself go... I always had a healthier life. I always went to the gym, but in a period of my life, I let myself go. I gained significant weight. I reached 127 kilos.
Binod:
Wow.
Fadi Al Said:
I didn't exercise. And then I think I had these targets. One of them was finishing the CFA. Then I wanted to do the MBA. Then I realized what's the next target? And I realized, that actually, this is something that I was still young and I'm losing track of my health. So, the realization is that I have a lot of stakeholders in my life. I have my kids. I owe them a lot. I need to take care of my health. The main driver was just being healthy. And this coincided also with the move to Lazard. It was a new beginning. Usually, when you do a big move-
Binod:
Interesting.
Fadi Al Said:
It gives you some energy to do changes. This was the catalyst. I would say also, not to mention that going up the stairs also and feeling like I'm out of breath just going one floor higher-
Binod:
No, not nice.
Fadi Al Said:
Actually, this is not the right thing. This is actually was coincided all together and decided to make a drastic move. Now, once you do this, it's not a diet you stick... It's a lifestyle change.
Binod:
Correct
Fadi Al Said:
And thank God, but I've managed to do is a lifestyle change that I'm sticking to and I'm happy with. And it's going to be very hard for me to go back to the old habits now. I have a healthier... I wouldn't say that the perfect, healthy, fit life, but at least I try to have a healthy. So overall, now I lost, as I said, 54 kilos. And I feel much better, thank God.
Binod:
It's quite incredible because you travel a lot locally as well as regionally and, and conferences and you have a hectic lifestyle. And yet, you manage to keep this. As I keep telling people, there's no excuse for not having a proper lifestyle and not taking care of your health, especially since it'll pay dividends in the long term. Its an investment, you're investing in your health at a younger age so you'll get the benefits later in life and you help yourself in a way.
Fadi Al Said:
Yes. I totally agree. As I said, part of consistency and dedication is, okay, you travel... I'm sure you can have time. There's jet lag. You go to the US, you wake up early in the morning. You can go to the gym. You can run around the park. There's a lot of things you can do even while traveling. I don't think... I used to do that as an excuse before, but now I don't think it's a valid excuse. You can always find some time to move around. Also, I'm not saying that you always have to eat healthy. You always have the rice, meat, but it's all about portioning it, timing it and managing it.
Binod:
Motivation.
Fadi Al Said:
It's the key now is... I'm not on a diet now. I live normally, I eat normally, I go to the gym, but everything is inmoderation.
Binod:
Fantastic. Well, talking about self-development, I know you're a guy who likes to learn and to change and you like variety. What self-development project are you working on right now? I'm sure you're working on something. Tell me about it.
Fadi Al Said:
Career-wise, we're trying and we're in process of developing an interesting strategy that, as I mentioned, is in line with our mission to improve markets, improve corporate governance, I would say, and it's in the same direction. That's-
Binod:
Is it on ESG, on those lines?
Fadi Al Said:
I will talk about it in time. It's something that has not been tapped on public markets, I have to say, that we're very excited about. Personally, I would say that all my focus now is try to develop this because it requires a lot of work. It took a lot of work also, and I'm in the middle of this now. That's my target and that's my focus. Of course, and some business targets that we're trying to achieve. Thank God we've achieved the five-year business plan in a very tough environment. So far, it's been in line with our expectations, even better.
Binod:
Fair enough. And three lessons on career and life? I know it's a big one, but still, given that you have experienced a lot and seen a lot, what would you advise youngsters who are listening to this podcast? Just three lessons or three tips from your side.
Fadi Al Said:
I would say set clear targets with clear timelines and write them down. And then when you identify them, write the tools that you need, write the skills and the steps you need to make you achieve them. Believe me, it makes all the difference. And I always urge people to be who they are, be yourself. I always tell the guys, if you remove the time you sleep in your life, you spend almost 70% of your time awake in your work. So If you're not yourself and you do not like what you do and you don't have the passion of what you do and you're not being yourself, it's a horrible life to live.
Binod:
True.
Fadi Al Said:
So be yourself, be consistent with that. Don't change yourself according to a job or for anyone. Just be yourself. Be consistent with yourself, so setting your goals, being yourself. And I would say always be passionate about what you do, what you like. Do what you're passionate about. Don't be driven by money or don't be driven by a monetary base, because I think that you're doing what you like being passionate about... It's set in a very vast way. Everyone is passionate about what they do. But I think if you do that out of passion, you'll be happy. And happiness is the ultimate target of what we do. You want to be happy.
Binod:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, unfortunately, we've come to the end of this very interesting chat. Thank you so much, Fadi, for making the time for this very insightful and fascinating review of your career and perspectives on opportunities and skills and skills gaps. It's been nice having you on the show. Interestingly, as usual, I always find out something new about my guest in our interviews.
Fadi Al Said:
Like I'm related to Nancy Ajram, for instance.
Binod:
Exactly. I never knew that you were related to Nancy Ajram-
Fadi Al Said:
Just for the record, I am not related to her.
Binod:
Thank you so much, Fadi.
Fadi Al Said:
Thank you for having me. Thank you. It's a pleasure.
[Tune]
Binod:
This podcast is brought to you by The Real Finance Mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word and be sure to check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile, which is Binod Shankar CFA. Let's keep in touch. Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com and we'll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events, and blogs. Till the next time - onwards and upwards.