Episode 22: Stepping into the Future | The Real Finance Mentor Podcast
It’s always delightful and encouraging to meet bright, engaging and mature youngsters. Listen as I talk to two female finance grads about college, mentors, mental health, further education, women in finance, career plans and the amazing experience of becoming champions of the grueling CFA research challenge.
PRESS PLAY TO LISTEN:
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT BELOW:
(Music plays)
Binod Shankar:
This is Binod Shankar and you’re listening to the real finance mentor podcast from the realfinancementor.com. The real finance mentor is your go-to resource for insight and inspiration on careers in finance, CFA and more. Now you might think, why this podcast? Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your financial career, by making it, one: relatable. I mean this is not theoretical stuff. We zero-in on the critical, practical issues. Number two: authentic. No bullshit, no side-stepping. The topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three: insightful. Take a Chartered accountant and a CFA charter holder, add 17-plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10-plus years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full time CFA training. Add speaking, mentoring, cycling, mountaineering and other endurance activities, and that’s me! Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor, or as I call it: RFM.
(Music plays)
Hi everyone! This is Binod Shankar here, the real finance mentor; and today we have another very interesting episode of this podcast series that I initiated to deliver insight and inspiration for finance careers. Today I have two guests with me, and before I talk about them- a bit of background: So, every year the CFA institute organizes investment research challenges around the world, where universities send teams to participate in a local, country-specific competition to analyze a listed local company. They write reports, they present (it) before a panel of judges. It’s a tough competition that brings together financial modelling, report writing skills, team work, etc., etc.
This year, Middlesex University (UAE), Dubai campus, were the UAE national champions. In fact, last year as well they were the national champions. So, I think they’re sort of setting a record here! Since I’m so interested in the youth, upskilling and employability, and of course, the CFA program, I’ve invited two of the champs- Sowmya and Steni, to share their views about a variety of topics on this podcast. I look forward to hearing from them. So, here we go! Welcome Sowmya and Steni, to the podcast!
Sowmya and Steni:
Thank you, Binod!
Binod:
My first question here would be, who exactly are Steni Philip and Sowmya Raghavan?? How would your teachers & fellow students describe you?
Steni:
I am a motivated individual who owns my goals, be it career or anything else that interests me. In my free-time, I am an avid-reader and an ardent fan of crime thrillers. I particularly love music and playing the piano and sometimes I can crack a joke or two that can crack you up. I would love to add fitness to the list, but right now I make up for it by watching workout videos from YouTube, which I guess is not bad for a beginner. I like being busy, so you would not usually find me sitting idle.
Sowmya:
Anyone who knows me would say I resemble Monica from the show “Friends”. I am passionate about my work and I give my best to everything that I take up. My friends have always described me as a helpful person, I strive for perfection and thus I can get really picky about things. And why Monica particularly? I absolutely love cleaning and organizing. Apart from that, I would describe myself as a singer and an artist.
Binod:
I like Steni’s focus on fitness because that’s one of my passions as well, and I suppose that’s a great thing to do! Of course, Sowmya, you being very organized definitely helps in many things in your career and life.
Now, talking about this research challenge, why did you guys volunteer for the tough CFA research challenge despite college exams and other demands on your time?
Steni:
It was definitely a challenge, not going to lie. Ever since my first year of university, I have always heard my seniors talk about the prestigious CFA research challenge. And when there was this selection round in the third year, I knew I simply had to try. And I can be confident enough to say, that, though the past 6 months was a tumultuous ride, it was nothing short of a life-changing experience. The hands-on experience and the knowledge that we amassed during these 6 months were not the same as that we gained in our university life. It was much more than all that. It was definitely difficult to manage our time, with the third year of university being another bumpy ride in itself. But I knew, as challenging as this would get, it would also be rewarding. And it sure is rewarding.
Sowmya:
I never participated in competitions throughout the 1st year of my university. One of my lecturers noticed this, and she told me that I should start participating because every competition is a learning experience of its own, and that stuck with me, and throughout the 2nd year I participated in a lot of competitions. Most of those competitions actually required work for about 1 or 2 weeks, and if I could gain those many skills and learn so many new things in a span of two weeks; the CFA research challenge is for a span of 6 months, and I thought the knowledge I could gather would be incredible.
Apart from that, around the end of my 2nd year and the beginning of 3rd year- while I liked finance, I wanted to know more about it from a practical aspect. So, I thought the CFA research challenge would be a great experience! One of my seniors, Ms. Samina, showed me her equity research report that she had made. When she showed me that I was in 1st year, and I was thinking that it would be great to produce a report like that by me. So, I was really motivated to participate in the CFA research challenge.
Binod:
You know, when listening to you guys, I am struck by a mix of, quite frankly, envy and admiration, because when I was your age, I never got the opportunity to hear of or participate in such interesting and valuable competitions, which I wish, I had done. It’s so character-forming, and upskills you and prepares you for the real world.
Sowmya:
Yes, definitely!
Binod:
It can’t have been easy working for the first time with four other team members on the team, on such a complex project & also under immense pressure regarding deadlines, etc. There must have been personality issues and technical, logistical & personal challenges, right? So, I’ve got two questions here for you:
1. Tell me about the highs, but I also want to know about the lows. And,
2. How did you manage, especially, the lows?
Steni:
Okay. So, to address the first question about the highs and the lows, I will address the lows first. So, there was a fair share of issues that we had. We could not meet up in person or work together physically, which posed problems on its own. Though there were technical and logistical challenges, I would say that for me, personal challenges were at the forefront. So, I’d lost a loved one during Covid, I had to travel back and forth from India and I had also tested Covid positive. So, this all happened in a month’s time and it was extremely difficult.
But on the bright side we learnt that team work can make anything possible. We had each other’s back throughout. When someone could not do something, another one would step in for them, and then we would manage it like that. When we divided the work, we divided it in such a way that you take up what you’re the most good at. So, I’m pretty good at strategy, so, I took up the role of a strategist and Sowmya, on the other hand, she was really good at numbers, so, she took up valuation. Similarly, we all played on our strengths.
Since each one took up what they were best in, and I think that helped a lot! Dealing with personal loss was very hard for me since I was very close to my grandfather, who passed away. The initial plan was for me and Harshi, our team member, to handle the report writing, while the presentation would be handled by Sowmya. But this incident required me to take a step back from report writing and Sowmya stepping in with Harshi. So, there were a change of plans, and I took up charge of the presentation instead.
Sowmya:
I would like to address your question in 2 parts.
So, the personality issues, technical, logistical issues, in that part of it – the only ‘low’ that I can think of is that we had a miscommunication and a misunderstanding regarding work segregation. I particularly felt that it was because of the amount of communication we did back and forth on WhatsApp and email, and if it wasn’t for an online mode of communication, I don’t even think this problem would have happened in the first place. But we overcame this by discussing it over and we just resolved this issue.
Covid has been a tough year for everyone. For me, it was actually my mental health that took a toll. Because I anyway have performance anxiety, (since I like things to be perfect), but I also had Covid anxiety. So, if, say my dad or my sister were stepping out for a meeting, I would have palpitations at that time wondering if they’d be safe, or whether the people around them are safe, and the palpitations used to take time to subside. The sad part is, I can’t even predict at what point in the day I would have this. I mean someone could be going out for grocery and coming back with the bags, and I would be (wondering), “Okay. Is this safe”? But I used to just rationalize it and tell myself that they have taken all the precautions they can and there are just some things that I cannot control. I just used to pray that they are safe, and (that) they are fine.
So, at that point, my family really supported me whenever I was feeling low or if I had palpitations or something. My sister particularly has been my backbone throughout this because she listens to a lot of podcasts and research, so, she keeps herself up-to-date about the Covid research that comes (out). She would send it across to me and she would tell me to read it or listen to it, so that I would feel better (based on the most latest research). So, yeah, that was really tough managing my mental health, the CFA Research Challenge and university at the same time. But I wouldn’t have it any other way, looking back at it; because I think it just made me a stronger person.
As for the high notes - I took the task of valuation. So, when we got the number for the DDM and DCF valuation, and that aligned with the stories and the industry ratios, we were all really excited on WhatsApp and we were just going back and forth, texting! The second high note I would say, was when Ms. Rashita called us up and told us that we were the local winners. So, we were really happy about that as well.
Binod:
Yeah! I mean, you getting excited about the cash flow statement tallying and the DCM/DCF value aligned with the strategy reminds me, as a qualified accountant, of the excitement I go through when a balance sheet tallies!
But on the serious side, Sowmya, I really appreciate you sharing a very personal issue- the mental health problems that you went through over the last 12 months, and how you coped with it. I think it’s something that a lot of people, both young and old, have experienced. But people rarely talk about it because it’s still a very taboo subject in many societies. I think what helped you is your support system of friends and family, and I think you need to have that support system so that you can pull yourself out and get back to normal life. So, that’s actually quite an inspirational narrative from you and I hope a lot of youngsters take heart from that, and believe that there’s always an exit and it doesn’t have to be doom and gloom.
Talking about support now- in the research challenge (I know because I was project manager for the research challenge in the UAE) you had support from your faculty, Ms. Rashita Puthiya and from the industry mentor, Ankur Agarwal, CFA. I had two questions for you guys on that:
1. On both Attitude & Aptitude side, what were 2 things that really struck you when you were interacting with these experienced professionals?
Steni:
Firstly, they were extremely good at what they did. They carried themselves in such a way that it demonstrated their proficiency and expertise.
Secondly, (and my most favorite point) they did not give us ready-made answers for anything. But what they did do was help us think it out ourselves, whatever the problem may be. I really admire that quality- where you don’t give the answer straight away, but you spark curiosity and inquisitiveness in your mentees and you point us in the right way to go. So, I think, that’s a really great thing.
Lastly- their dedication towards students. I have to mention Ms. Rashita over here, who is our greatest motivation. She pushed us to work harder and motivated us when we were completely exhausted. And the thing about Ms. Rashita is that she never missed an opportunity to remind us that every single thing that we do; sometimes we were so drained, so not motivated; she would remind us that every single second is worth the pain, and that really pushed us to go forward.
Sowmya:
For Ms. Rashita – she is extremely passionate about the subject and that is reflected in the amount of time and the amount of effort that she has put in training us throughout the last 6 months. She prepared 70 questions on an excel and she sent it to us for a 10 min question and answer and she called each of our parents at 10:30pm 27th Feb, 2021, the day the results came. She said that you all should be really proud of your children because they have stuck through such a difficult competition– they’ve emerged as the winners. And we are truly blessed to have a mentor like her.
The second thing- she expects a certain level of work from us, and rightly so, because she has an expertise in the subject. And if we show the effort in wanting to scale to that level, she is there to provide us with all the support that we need. Even when we didn’t actually qualify to the next round, I remember the only thing she said was, “All of you gave in your best and you worked hard throughout the last 6 months. So, if anything, you should be really happy and proud of what you’ve accomplished, and it is still time to celebrate.
As for Mr. Ankur –Ms. Rashita provided a lot of technical knowledge, but Mr. Ankur gave a lot of industry insights and more of the practical aspects. And from a judge point of view- what are the things that would actually add value to our report, he constantly told us of that. For instance, Tabreed were to start their operations in India in 2021, and we calculated the tax amount on that and it was really insignificant. So, we were wondering if we should even show it. And when we asked him, he said, “You should, because it shows that you have paid attention even to the tiniest detail”. Things like that, we found really valuable from Mr. Ankur.
Something that I found in common between them is that they’re always open and willing to answer our questions, again- if we approach them. They respond to curiosity and they are extremely patient while explaining it to you. So, even if we asked them a second time- “We didn’t quite understand what you were trying to tell us”, they would be extremely patient and explain it all over again. So, it was really nice to have the support of two mentors.
Binod:
Yes, interesting. I mean, I know you’ve talked about both your mentors. But conceptually, what are your thoughts on the value of mentors? Especially, for fresh, young graduates who are about to enter the workplace.
Steni:
I think, if you had probably asked me this question before the CFA Research Challenge, I would not have had much to say. But after being a part of this competition, I think, while a good mentor imparts his/her knowledge to you, they also prompt you to think and look for answers on your own. Sometimes you will be drained and exhausted, and I know this because I have been there. They will encourage you when you need it the most. More importantly, for youngsters like us who are just starting our career, mentorship is an invaluable resource. There are a lot of things we have no clue about. If there is someone who is willing to offer us advices without sugarcoating it, I think, that is simply great and we are ever ready to take it.
Sowmya:
After having mentors, I certainly do think it is important for every student to have mentors, in university especially, because we are just confused. Mentors give you the necessary guidance about all the confusion that you have. The best part, I felt, was that they give you the space to bounce of and shape your own ideas while they also give their own inputs to your thought process, without actually dictating what your opinion should be. If I had to give you an example- for financial modeling, there were a lot of times when I was doubtful if the estimate that I’m doing or the assumption that I’m making is correct. But Ms. Rashita used to always say that, “Okay, I can tell you broadly that your revenue cannot probably be above 10%, but you need to trust yourself that the assumptions that you’re making are right”.
Additionally, they stimulate and they build the technical skills and 4Cs that you had mentioned in one of your LinkedIn posts– curiosity, communication, collaboration and critical thinking and I would like to add a 5th C – confidence. Because I definitely see improvement in all of the above in myself.
Binod:
I’m probably going to steal that. I’m probably going to upgrade my 4C to 5C now. I’ll add the confidence the next time I make a post on social media.
Now let’s talk about higher education in the UAE. Higher education in the UAE as you know, is often regarded as subpar compared to UK/US/Canada/Australia and even compared to some good colleges in India. So why did you stay back and study in the UAE when you probably had other options?
Steni:
It definitely is regarded as sub-par, but is not necessarily sub-par. Actually, my initial plan after my grade 12 was to go to a good college in India, because college education in UAE as we all know is pretty expensive, and I wasn’t really sure whether I should do it here. But on doing a little research myself, I got to know about Middlesex University. So, there they had really attractive scholarships, and I heard that the faculty over there was really good. To top it all, they also had ACCA exemptions. Out of the total 13 papers, they offered a 9-paper exemption. So, I think, Middlesex really provided value for money and it definitely was not sub-par when compared to other colleges abroad or even in India.
Sowmya:
Respectfully, I don’t believe that quality of education is sub-par in the UAE, at least for undergraduate education. A lot of international universities are established in this country and the international curriculum is also followed very rigorously, such as my university- Middlesex. And I believe that no matter what university you study in, it is what you make of that experience that shapes your knowledge. And particularly for a field like accounting and finance, when I did my research, I found that in comparison to all the other countries as well, UAE provided a well-rounded learning experience and it was at par with internationally what is offered. So, I got quality education. I didn’t compromise on anything and I was in the comfort of my house and I chose to be here, and with the pandemic- it turned out to be a blessing in disguise for me.
Binod:
So, we talked about college education being expensive in the UAE, right? Now that you’re almost done with college, reflecting back, and looking at the demands of the job market in UAE and abroad- do you think that the time and money spent here were well spent or not? I mean, give me 3 reasons why.
Steni:
Initially, as I mentioned, I did think it was too expensive. Then again when I weighed the pros and cons, I think that the money, and in particular the time spent, was very well spent.
First of all, studying in an accredited and recognized university helped me gain a number of scholarships, in particular, the CMA Program scholarship. There is also a yearly scholarship offered by Middlesex which slashed down my yearly fees by almost half, and I found it simply great! Second thing I would like to say is exposure - not only did I gain a quality UK-degree, I also gained exposure to several different things that helped me become employable. So, I had firms messaging me on LinkedIn even when I was in my first year- that they have seen my profile and would like me to intern with them. So, I think that being a first year and then you getting internship offers is simply great! And I don’t think you would probably get it anywhere else in the world. Because at the same time, I had my friends from India, they had come here and they were actually struggling to find an internship in Dubai. So, I think that studying in a recognized university will help you gain that exposure.
Thirdly, extracurriculars – while I admit that classroom learning is super essential for a student, I think what really gives us a taste of the outside world, of the real corporate world, is competitions. We had the amazing opportunity to take part in a number of competitions, like the CFA Research Challenge, and I think every penny spent was definitely worth it.
Sowmya:
Firstly, I got a merit scholarship, like Steni had mentioned, from the university; and I got 2 other scholarships to pursue professional qualifications. So, definitely it was money well spent, because I got a great quality-education and am able to pursue professional qualifications. The number of opportunities that our university provides us with is quite a lot, because we had a lot of competitions, both- internal and outside university competitions. They provided us with scholarships. And the faculty is always there to train you for every opportunity that comes your way, so, that rigorous training also helped me upskill myself. So, I definitely think that makes me employable, to meet the demands of the job market.
Thirdly, the exposure available in a country like UAE is global because there are home-grown and international companies and they are always looking for talented people. This combined with the skills that we’ve attained over the last 3 years in university, I truly believe it was time and money well spent.
Binod :
So, these days in the media, you've probably heard a lot about, you know, these young Goldman Sachs bankers, who made this big presentation, protesting tough working conditions and talking about long days and nights and weekends, and tough working conditions with 105 hours a week and things like that. You are graduates going into the workplace, so, I'm very curious, what are your thoughts when you read such news items? Are you confident? Scared? Anxious? Curious? Tell me more.
Steni:
So, I think it is my personal opinion that working hours like this should not actually be glorified, nor should employers take advantage of their employees. However, I don't refute the fact or discourage people from liking it, because it is really your personal choice in the end. And If you don’t mind toiling a number of hours, then so be it.. And Goldman Sachs really has a reputation and everyone really wants to work in there. So, I don't really blame the people who choose to work over there. But then again, there's plenty of people waiting in line to get that one single job. And there is a need that we remind ourselves, our government and our employers- “Work is not the only thing in your life”! You have to earn your livelihood; it is an essential thing as a human being. But you need to also make sure that you hit the right balance between work and life, which definitely is not easy. But it is an absolute necessity, given the time that we are living in, and the growing importance of mental health.
Sowmya:
So, I'm reminded of the quote: “If you do what you love, you will never work a day in your life”. And I think that quote is true, but not if you're working on it from 9am to 3am. Because then you're just going to burn out and you might just start disliking work. And while the choice to work in companies like Goldman Sachs is on the employee, and also the dream for a lot of people, I think there is a power disparity in the equation between an employer and an employee. Okay, so what I mean by this is that if the employee decides that, “Okay, I will work on certain hours and beyond that, I will not put in work”, the employer can just decide to fire him. And like Steni said, there's someone waiting in line to take over your place, and because of that replaceability,
I think it is a tough choice for many. And there could be a lot of people out there for who this work is not just the dream, but also, they do it for the high reward. Because they could be having student loans, or they could be the sole earning member in their family and things like that. And since the jobs out there are few, they don't have a choice. So, I do believe that employers hold a higher power there, and there is a need for better working conditions because of that. With work from home expected to continue in the near future, there definitely needs to be a clear, defined work time.
Binod Shankar:
True. Let's continue talking about careers, because it’s an area of special interest for me. Now, success in careers is generally much tougher for women than men. Because,
1) In many cultures, especially in the Middle East and Asia, there's so much social pressure. Girls are expected to marry early, have kids, raise those kids, look after the home including in-laws, at the same time be super conservative etc., and that can negatively affect career progression.
2) A male-dominated workplace, which is very common in finance. So, you probably felt the first part of what I said- the cultural part and the family pressure part, but most likely not number two yet, because you have yet to enter a workplace. And you have probably thought about these issues: gender disparity, gender discrimination, especially in finance, which is probably your chosen field. How do you view this and how do you plan to navigate through this?
Steni:
Talking about the first one, lucky for me- my parents are always super supportive, and as always and always, been my greatest encouragement. My dad is like a huge inspiration to me, and he's always the first person I turn to when I make decisions regarding education and career. I have two sisters; we don't have any boys in the house. But my dad has never really treated us any less then he would treat any other boy. We were brought up independent. We knew all the aspects of running a house- be it finances or any other household aspects. And my dad is someone who's always helped my mom in cooking and everything else. There's an equal share of work. So, I think that has really influenced my thinking about equality and how everyone should be treated. And I think that is a huge blessing.
Talking of the second one- a male-dominated workplace, I still haven't felt the brunt of it until now. But when I look around, I see things changing, I see so many women holding top positions in top firms. And I think that's a really good beginning. And I feel privileged to be part of such a time where women are empowered. I'm sure I will find a way through. And what really matters is what we think of ourselves. And that shouldn't be a point of time.
But, you know, we think of ourselves, “Oh, I'm a woman. I can't really reach them”. But then look around, look for inspiration. There are so many women who have made it to the top. And if they can, so can I. And you eventually become what you settle for. One thing I've kept on holding to, even when I've made a lot of decisions, is what I'm settling for. There are a lot of options. I can settle for less; I can just settle for a job which is not very recognized. But I've made it a point in my life that I’ll settle for the best. I know, I may not see it now. But I know, that it will come to me and I'll eventually find it.
Sowmya:
So, same as Steni, I have never faced any social pressure as a woman in my house. And I've always grown around strong, independent women in my family, who have always taken their decisions. Be it choosing to raise a family or deciding their own career trajectory.
I have an elder sister at home. Again, like Steni's family, I don't have any brothers. So, my sister's technically of the marriageable age, according to society. But I don't see my parents telling her anything, and she's making her own choices. And that's also because the men in my family, right from my grandfather, they've always been supportive, and they've always believed in the importance of empowering women. And I'm reminded of Dhivya Suryadevara, the then CFO of General Motors. Now, she's the CFO of Stripe. And when I was reading her story, I remember, roughly around six years back, I was in school, and I found it really inspirational because she had a difficult background, both financially and personally. But she worked hard. And she rose to become the CFO, the first woman CFO of a major US automaker, but she also has a family right now at the same time. So, like Steni said, “There is no reason for us to settle for less”.
And to answer your second question about a male-dominated workplace- recently, in one of your LinkedIn posts, you had mentioned that there were (I think) eight women in finance from the Barron’s list who were women of color. And I don't know why, but for some reason, I saw number two was Ms. Anu Aiyengar, and I just started reading up about her career and her journey. And seeing that she rose to the top at a time when the conversation about equality was so bleak, and she showed strength, that she did not give up. When her interviewer said that she was of the wrong gender, of the wrong color, and in the wrong country. I mean, that really inspired me. Because if she could do it, I think I can. Because even though I've not felt the male-dominated workplace yet, there have been improvements over the years in terms of breaking the glass ceiling, and I will be entering the workplace at a time when the conversation is at least prevalent. And hopefully, by the time I'm old, equality is completely there in every workplace. And my plan to navigate through this is just to work hard to be the best at what I am doing, and I’ll let my work speak for itself.
Binod :
Very interesting, right? It's quite important to have the right network or connections. I think both of you referred to the fact that you had strong women and supportive men in your family. And that itself is a big thing. Because you grew up seeing successful, strong women, with an eye for fulfilling their potential.
And very interesting for me is also you mentioned two names Sowmya- Dhivya Suryadevara and Anu Aiyengar. And I think that it's very important to have strong role models in the sector that you're looking at. Because then suddenly, you can identify with these people, and you believe if these people with these backgrounds similar to mine can do it, then probably I can do it as well. I think we are seeing an increase in such role models in finance, of women entering finance, and hopefully, it picks up and it really encourages more young women to enter finance. Because I think the lack of role models is one significant hurdle. Especially, when you don't have women, to mentor women at the workplace. That can be a hurdle and a hope, if you do have senior women who are able and willing to mentor Junior women.
Now, let's talk about professional networking. You're both active on LinkedIn, which is fantastic because I'm also quite active on that platform. It is great because it is ‘the’ professional networking platform and I keep saying that to everyone, every youngster. Now, of course, I want to discuss what you have found out about the platform. So, tell me three things, two good and say one bad, that you found out about LinkedIn.
Steni:
To start off, I think LinkedIn is a great platform, which has made networking a lot easier. So, firstly, if you're looking to motivate yourself, LinkedIn is the go-to platform, you see a lot of people achieve their dreams, irrespective of their age, gender, or culture. Naturally, it pushes you to think that if they can do it, so can I. That's a great motivation. Sometimes you're exhausted. and you want to know if you have that thing in you, if you have what it takes to reach a position where you'll be recognized, or you can achieve that qualification you've always wanted, to get the job that you've always wanted. But then you see posts of people who have actually gone through this stuff, and then how they’ve overcome it. And then we think that if they can do it, then definitely we can do it. There is a way out if we want.
And another thing is posts like yours, which tells me what I need to hear rather than what I would want to hear. It sometimes is just so on the face, but it's really true and I know that. Speaking of that, I see in LinkedIn a lot of people are just superficial. There's a lot of advice, which doesn't make any sense, and they’re just put up there just for the sake of putting out content.
And one more bad thing I would like to mention about LinkedIn is that there's a lot of people who come just there to make friends. So, then there's a lot of, (I don't know if I should say this) but there's a lot of men who message, “Hi, can we be friends? Where are you from? Where do you live?” Like all those things. So, I think that’s quite annoying, and didn’t you think LinkedIn is a professional networking site? And then people coming here to make friends, I don't think that's really acceptable.
Binod :
I think they are people who’ve confused Facebook with LinkedIn. Maybe they should stick to Facebook.
Sowmya:
So, two good things-
1) I think it's like a one-stop-shop for human interaction and development. Again, not on a social but on an intellectual level. But clearly, as Steni said, “Some people are misusing it.” So, in terms of, be it connecting with people who have common subject interests, or to find mentors, or prospective employment opportunities, and definitely to learn, it has it all and it helps you with all of it.
2) Personally, for me, one thing that I found really interesting about LinkedIn was: if I generally read a piece of information, I form an opinion about it. But having a platform like LinkedIn enabled me to get a lot of different perspectives on the same matter, which is something you don't get on a normal news app. So, if I were to give an example, I remember there was this news article which said Zomato (India) gives paid leave for 10 days to women who are on their periods or something. And I clicked on the comment section, and it was so interesting to read, because it's like a debate going on there in the comment section about whether it should be 10 days, whether it should be seven days, whether it should even be there. So, it was really interesting like that, for many pieces of information, to read the comments.
And the bad thing that I have experienced is it's really difficult to distinguish between what is real and what is fake. So, I remember this one week, I came across a lot of posts, where one person posts, saying that my prospective employee asked me for 28,000 as the salary but you know, I chose to give 35,000. And I kept seeing this. And I was like everyone somehow has the same figure, and the same amount. I mean, it was obvious it was fake. But I think there is a lot of information out there that might be a little bit more harder to distinguish.
And I also found profiles to be fake. So, once I remember there was this connection request that I got. And I did not know the company. So, I just did a quick Google search. And I didn't find anything, I found a Facebook page. So, I clicked on that page, and I found some really disturbing content on it, and it made it a lot harder to trust genuine people and to connect with them. Because I'm skeptical about hitting that connect button these days. I tend to wonder who is on the other side of the conversation? If it's genuine? If their identity is who they actually are? Because I feel like I'm revealing my identity to someone, but what if I'm not receiving it from the other end? So that's definitely one of the bad things that I've seen with LinkedIn.
Binod :
Yeah, absolutely. Talking about opinions and advice- you guys are young, and you've gone to school and college and competitions and things like that. So, you must have been on the receiving side of opinions, advice, instructions, suggestions; from parents, family members, teachers, mentors. So, of course, you're still trying to form your own opinions. But I'm curious, give us some examples of some great advice, and, of course, some bullshit advice that you've got in the past about education, career, and life.
Steni:
Okay, so, I've got a lot of advice in my life. So, to start with a great one first, if I could think of one great advice, it would be, it's a little complicated: ‘Don't be afraid of being afraid’. So, I chanced upon this in my first year of university. This is one advice that always helped me to seize every opportunity that came my way. So back in school, I was that one kid who was always afraid to try. Because I was afraid, I would fail. I had this fear of failure, like, “Oh, God! What if I go for it, and if I fail? What will others think of me? I always used to have that constant fear. But when I came to university, I started to push myself. I realized that if I am the one standing between my success and me, I think my greatest enemy was myself. I think fear was the biggest enemy. If I don't try, I don’t even stand a chance of winning. So, I decided I'm going to seize every opportunity that comes my way, whether I win or not. I decided to make it a learning experience. If I fail one time, so what? I can win the next time.
Talking about bullshit advice, it would definitely be what every other person has told me, “Don't bite off more than you can chew, there’s too much on your plate.” And there might be too much on my plate. But if that's what you want, then so be it.
I think, twenties are that time of your life, where you either make it or break it. You can either waste it all away, or you can invest it. Study a valuable course, or even do more productive things. So, I want to do it. So, who's to decide what I want in my life? I decided I wanted to be productive, so it should be productive.
Sowmya:
So, continuing with the bullshit advice, I wouldn't call it so much as advice, because I've heard it, but no one has ever told me this. But yes, I believe in school, there's a lot of over-focus on marks. And sure, while that can be important to get to a certain stage in your life, I think the focus should also be on continuous learning. Because in the long run, that's the only thing that's going to help you thrive in your career. So maybe till school, in college, your parents or your teachers, they could be telling you, “Okay, get marks. Do this, study this.” But beyond that, if you are not going to have self-motivation that, “Okay, I should learn, and I should continuously update myself with what is happening”, no one can really help you in the later parts of your life. So, I also think that it's important to have it from a young age. And as a side note, something that my parents have always told me is, “The drive to even score marks and to learn, it should always be internal.” So, this was something that was always taught to me from a young age.
And continuing with good advice, always from my parents and my sister as well, “You will always have work and it's only going to get tougher as you grow older. But you have to find time for things that are really important to you. So, they always tell this to me with regards to my physical exercise and meditating. I haven't really been focusing a lot on it in the last year because of work, but they would always tell me that you should at least take out half an hour or 45 minutes in a day to focus on those things as well.
And the second good advice that I always carry with me is, ‘Your success does not matter if you have compromised on your values, or your ethics, to achieve it’. And they always emphasize on honesty, that it should be honesty even when no one is watching you. So, it's not just when you're being monitored, but what you whether you're honest to yourself.
And the second thing would be to help everyone out there, because it's only going to make you a better person and you're going to end up learning in that process. You'll always learn something when you help others. So yeah, these are the advice that I've got till date.
Binod :
I like that part about three things that you said, Sowmya, which I really connect with.
1) Don't focus too much on scores and marks, and also,
2) Try and achieve work-life balance, physical exercise, meditation, etc.
3) And very, very important, especially in finance- Don't compromise on your values or ethics. Yeah, that's very important.
Now you guys are about to approach a very important part of your life, or phase of your life. You're about to graduate, and you're looking forward, hopefully, to many things in life. So, I've got two related questions here.
1) What's your take on your chosen carriers in terms of trends, prospects, opportunities, and challenges?
Steni:
So, I aspire for a career in finance, though I have not particularly decided on the specifics. And I know for a fact that finance is a fiercely competitive field, with the pandemic, only making it more competitive. The businesses are growing, and since finance is fundamental to every business regardless of the sector, the future of finance definitely does not look dull. But at the same time, I see that the opportunities are less, and the competition is just great. So, I think finance is a very nice field to grow in, to work in, to learn about new things. But there are a lot of challenges that come with it. People are just competitive right now and everyone has at least one or two qualifications. So, I think we really need to stand out.
Sowmya:
The one thing I feel that possesses is both an opportunity and a challenge at the same time, in again, my chosen career, in finance, is the increased demand for certain skills like financial modeling, and maybe if you're at a more senior position, things like data analytics and technology, to supplement along with your professional-technical knowledge. So, you not only need a professional qualification and your undergraduate, but you also need these skills.
And why I said it's an opportunity? Because you get to upskill yourself in the process. But it's a challenge because it's a completely new subject that you have to learn. And sometimes I've seen that a lot of people have done IT, they end up easing into finance, because they do a financial professional qualification, and they have the IT skills, and then they're definitely more employable. So as Steni said, “The competition is also a lot.” And yeah, that's what I believe is the future. But then again, we don't know; 10 years from now, things could change, a new technology could come or there could be a demand for a new skill.
Binod :
You talked about opportunities and challenges, right? So, given that you seem to have decided to go for a career in finance, what's your personal plan to deal with this, or take advantage of these opportunities and challenges?
Steni:
The only way as obvious as it is, is to compete. So, we have to stand out from the crowd. Like Sowmya said, “We have to keep on upskilling ourselves, learn new skills. The demands of the market might change. Then, to continuously focus on what are the current demands, and then upskill yourself accordingly.
My personal plan to deal with this is to have an understanding of the subject, rather than just mug it all up while I'm in this learning stage. And I think it should be all about learning. Because the more you learn, the more knowledgeable you are, and you are better placed to apply it in your workplace.
And another thing is to set goals for yourself, hold yourself accountable. For me, what I've done is, I've set like short term targets and long-term targets for myself. I know what I want to be in the future, 10 years down the line or five years down the line. I know what I want to be, and I need to work for it. I can't just make a plan and sit idle. So, what I have to do is I have to work for it, find out what is the right certification that goes along with, what will complement what I want to be. Don't let anyone tell you what you want to aim for. So, you own your goal and you work for it. And I think, that's the mantra.
Sowmya:
So, as a short-term goal, for the professional qualification side of it, I'm planning to give my CFA level one. And from the skills side of it, I learned financial modeling in the CFA research challenge, but I definitely want to perfect it because I think there's a lot of scope for me to become better.
So, I received a scholarship for the financial modeling Institute, AFM exam. So, I'm planning to give that to perfect my financial modeling skills. And definitely in the long term, based on my research at least, I would like to learn Python and then learn ‘R’, because I saw that Python is easier to begin with for someone who has no coding experience, and then transitioning to ‘R’ is easier. And ‘R’ is more in demand for finance, for data analytics and finance. But then again, as I said, “I don't know, five years, 10 years from now, the demands of the market could just completely change.” And I'll have to replan and go according to that. But as of now, this is my plan.
Binod :
Well, all good things come to an end. So, I think it's time to wrap up this very fascinating interview. I always find it fascinating to dig into the minds of youngsters and hear about their hopes, fears, ambitions, aspirations, etc. And, and this podcast, give me a fascinating insight into what you guys think. I mean, you guys are obviously bright and ambitious and quite diligent, and remarkably quiet street smart and aware of what's happening around you, and the demands and opportunities and challenges. And hence, I think this particular episode would be of immense value to anyone right now in college, or even fresh graduates, not just looking for a career in finance, but pretty much a career in any of their chosen fields.
Because there's so much valuable information about education and learning, and mental toughness, about attitude, about upskilling, that can help them in their careers. So, thank you so much, Sowmya and Steni, for spending the time and sharing your thoughts. I hope you’re at the threshold of a very interesting and fulfilling career. I’ll watch your careers with considerable interest. So, thank you.
Steni:
Thank you for having us over Binod.
Sowmya:
Thank you. Thank you for having us over. This has been a great self-reflection process for even us.
Steni:
Yes, absolutely.
Binod:
This podcast is brought to you by the real finance mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I really hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word. You should check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile which is: Binod Shankar, FCA, CFA. Let’s keep in touch! Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com, and we’ll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events and blogs. Till the next time, onwards and upwards.
(Music plays)
Binod:
This podcast is brought to you by the real finance mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I really hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word. You should check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile which is: Binod Shankar, FCA, CFA. Let’s keep in touch! Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com, and we’ll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events and blogs. Till the next time, onwards and upwards.
(Music plays)