Episode 1: Karishma Bhatia
Presenting to you Episode 1 of The Real Finance Mentor podcast by Binod Shankar. In this episode, we have Karishma Bhatia.
Karishma is a girl who has tons of grit. She’s a CFA charter holder, a working mom and a finance professional.
But those are not the only reasons why she’s our guest. Her CFA journey was long, grueling and eventful. She had a tough time balancing personal, work and exam life, badly underestimated the difficulty, got solidly kicked in the ass by the CFA exams (and recovered) twice and switched employers and careers, all with a smile.
Listen as she talks about her hard won lessons on how to crack level II and III, the importance of a reliable partner(!), challenges faced by women in finance and her journey from couch potato to endurance athlete.
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Binod: This is Binod Shankar and you're listening to The Real Finance Mentor podcast from therealfinancementor.com. The Real Finance Mentor is your go to resource for insight and inspiration on careers and finance, CFA and more. Now you would think why this podcast? Well, my goal is to deliver insight and inspiration for your finance career by making it one, relatable. This is not theoretical stuff. We zero in on the critical practical issues. Number two, authentic. No bullshit, no sidestepping; the topics, guests and questions are all from that perspective. And number three, take a chartered accountancy of a charter holder, add 17 plus years as a corporate warrior, mix in 10 years of entrepreneurship, throw in a decade of full time CFA training, add speaking, mentoring, cycling and mountaineering, and that's me. Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor or as they call it, RFM.
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Binod: Welcome to the very first episode of The Real Finance Mentor podcast. So as I promised, we try to bring together practitioners, academics, candidates to deliver insight and inspiration for your finance career. And today is the very first episode. I have with me, someone who I like and respect a lot and who is also a bit of an inspiration. Karishma Bhatia is a CFA charter holder who I've seen through level I, 11 and III as she sat in my CFA classes, she's also a working mom. She's also quite successful in her own right in the finance world. And of course we share a common passion, which is that we're both endurance athletes. She's a long distance runner who ran a 10K and also a half marathon. Welcome to The Real Finance Mentor podcast, Karishma.
Karishma: Thank you, Binod.
Binod: So, Karishma - introduce yourself. Tell me more about yourself.
Karishma: So I started my CFA in 2011 and yes, and I work for a bank. I mother a six year old and a wife 37 year old and both are equally in the same mental capability.
Binod: I hope your husband had not listened to this podcast, right?
Karishma: Yeah, I hope so.
Binod: So you had an interesting journey from college, obviously to CFA then.... And CFA itself was quite challenging and we'll talk about that as well. But before we go into all that, why did you start CFA? It's a question that I ask a lot of people, I get different answers. So what's your reason for starting to get the three letters after your name?
Karishma: So I was planning to do something post-graduation. So I was planning masters of finance. I was planning something that I could do to enhance where I was. So I came across CFA. As a course, I knew a couple of people who were doing it and I wanted to know what exactly it was. So I did my research and the only course that actually gave you a fantastic coverage of everything in finance was CFA. So I decided to give it a shot.
Binod: It's the same reason why I started my CFA journey way back in 2003 because I thought, you know what? A) fantastic global qualification, brilliant structured curriculum and a lot of new things that you'd never covered in BCOM or in your case, in finance graduation program, or in my case, in my [CEA 00:03:39] as well. So actually it's quite a lot of learning experience to start the CFA program. Now of course, when other people here of CFA, the first one that comes to their mind is, oh my God, it's tough and it is tough. And you have had your share of challenges, but before we go to the different levels, what are the top three challenges that you had personally in CFA and how'd you crack this?
Karishma: So in CFAs, first of all, the fact that it covers so many topics, so many subjects, that itself is a challenge. Because you are exposed to one or two kinds of-
Binod: It's quite broad.
Karishma: Yeah, it is very broad. You're only exposed to one or two kind of... One is related to your work. So I was working in an insurance industry, so I knew about financial products, investment products, but CFA covers a lot more like derivatives and GIPS and so many topics that I have not even heard of.
Binod: I used to hate derivatives. I still hate derivatives, but true. So actually you studied topics which you had never worked on in real life at work.
Karishma: Absolutely.
Binod: And that's a challenge because I find that if you don't have relevance, you don't get the motivation and you can't see the connection, and you struggle to understand the concept itself. So one was of course the topics; derivatives, portfolio valuation and GIPS. God, GIPS is one hell of a theoretical topic in level III. What else was there? What other issues did you have... Other issue was no real time experience in these topics.
Karishma: Yeah. And plus if a straight out of college. A lot of things with theoretical for me in terms of topics and with very less practical experience. So for example, if I did a fix problem, for me it was a math problem, but in reality I've never really done a fix transaction at that point of time. So I had to use a lot of time to get the concepts right. So a lot of work, yeah.
Binod: But surely a lot of this that you covered in CFA, at least in level I and maybe II, you covered that in your grad program college, right?
Karishma: Partially, yes.
Binod: Your BBA or-
Karishma: Partially.
Binod: Bachelors in accounting of finance. Partially but not to the depth or to the breadth of what CFA covers.
Karishma: Not at the depth the CFA offers.
Binod: So let's move on now to the rest of the CFA journey because this is where it gets interesting. Now you cracked level I in the first attempt.
Karishma: First attempt.
Binod: I remember that. And then you had issues from level II onwards. Now take us through your journey in level II and then we talk about level III later. What happened in level II in your first attempt, why did it happen and how did you, as using the old wards, how did you damage control this?
Karishma: I was getting married. Just after my level II exam, that is, was in June, I was getting married in July. So I'm a North Indian and the amount of work that goes into a wedding.
Binod: How do you time your marriage to be in July when you know very well, like well in advance that the exam is in June? Moving on, let's not go into that.
Karishma: I was missing challenges.
Binod: Right, okay. And you've got a real challenge here.
Karishma: I got a real challenge, yeah. So I was getting married obviously there was a lot of planning to do and things like that. But apart from that, I think the real problem that I didn't get through the level was the fact that I had underestimated level II in terms-
Binod: Yeah. This is a big issue I see a lot because I think there's a huge difference between level II and level I. There's a big jump.
Karishma: Huge leap.
Binod: I say that level I is like walking through a parking lot puddle, it's like one inch deep, but maybe a mile long. And level II, level I is a parking lot puddle and level II is an ocean, where 10 miles long and 10 miles deep, that's probably exactly-
Karishma: Topics are many and it gets a lot more complex from level I, all right. In terms of they're getting deeper into every topic, and remember, we still don't have the real experience. We still don't have the real time experience. So that was the biggest challenge; practicing. In level I we had, individual isolated questions. In level II we had the whole item set, so we had to relate everything to that. So I believe practice was the main thing that I was lacking. And level II requires a lot more time. Level III, 90 days, II a little longer, but I think level II requires more.
Binod: So this is a question that people ask me often; how many hours are required for level I and level II and how many hours did you spend in level I compared to level II approximately.
Karishma: Level I - I did about three hours a day.
Binod: Total hours.
Karishma: Total hours would be...
Binod: No, just approximate number.
Karishma: Approximately, I think 700 hours.
Binod: For level I?
Karishma: For level II.
Binod: Level II, and level I?
Karishma: Level I would be approximately 400, 500 hours.
Binod: About half that.
Karishma: Half of that, yes. Level II I think requires more number of hours. If you are not experienced in those levels and you are again looking at things differently from an experienced person. Most of the topics like, again, derivatives always comes to my mind whenever I talk about challenges. So derivatives has swaps and all of those and those require a lot of practices, a lot of practice because you're never probably going to do a... Well, I've still not done a swap in my real life, but I'm never going to do that but I have to nail that concept. So it required a lot of time.
Binod: So level II first attempt, flunked.
Karishma: Level II first attempt [inaudible 00:09:03].
Binod: Flunked.
Karishma: Yeah.
Binod: And now you know why, in retrospect, of course, hindsight is a great tool. So damage control. Now you mentioned why you went wrong, but go into the damage control, how did you pass the second time around? What did you do that is different?
Karishma: So I got married and I had that whole thing out of my head now so I can focus now. And that was more important, focus. And with focus I started focusing on the bigger and the most important topics.
Binod: Which were?
Karishma: Which were...
Binod: FRA.
Karishma: FRA, equity, and...
Binod: I think fixed income was also... And ethics were significant.
Karishma: Fixed income was very important, ethics was always, throughout all levels, was very important. So I focused on the bigger topics where most of the chunk lied, I still remember some concepts of fixed income that we had to... So I started visualizing and I had started making notes.
Binod: The time you wrote level II, you flunked that and we know why. Lack of focus, lack of practice, you said that, but then you went on to pass level II the second time around. Now tell us more what happened or what do you say, damage control? What did you do that was different in level II the second time around.
Karishma: So what I did is I definitely practiced a lot more and I focused a lot on the bigger topics. So bigger topics in level II, mainly the fixed income, the FRA, the equity and ethics. Very important. I think these four cover almost 50 or 70% of the potion. So I focused on the bigger topics. I also started using the CFA curriculum at this point because I felt that the language they use in the curriculum was very close to the language they use in the exam. The way the questions were framed, the way the language went in terms of where they were going to and I know how they were going to conclude it. I started getting used to that way of reading and understanding what they're asking because I was getting my concepts from the curriculum directly.
Binod: It's something that I also tell students, by the way, that Schweser is used by a lot of people and various other prep materials, but if you don't make it the first time round, one possible reason is because we haven't got it on the line concepts yet. Like probably was in your case for level II, and hence it's always, always advisable, go back to the curriculum because there's nothing as good as... It's very elaborate, detailed and deep, like you said, with a lot of examples, with a lot of extensive examples. So that was another thing. Anything else that should have helped you a lot in the second time around?
Karishma: So one of the things that I used Schweser was for just practicing the concept. So once I've gone through the bigger topics, so if I went through fixed income, I did the fixed income from the curriculum, I went through the topic, I went through the concept and just to see if I understood, I used Schweser to just revise it. Because Schweser or any of these books have a good, concise and easy to understand language.
Binod: It's very summarized.
Karishma: Very summarized. So it helped. So it may sound very tedious that you're going through the curriculum and then you're going through the but you had to get it right. You had to get the whole concept right. and question reading. I think preparation is one side, execution is the other. So the six hour exam, your mindset, your frame of mind is very important. So you need to be in the right frame of mind. If you have a lot going on, it gets difficult.
Binod: So that was a level II journey, right? So a lot of lessons learned there, especially in terms of conceptual understanding and going into depth CFA curriculum. Next of course was level III and level III, another set of challenges. So tell us what happened in level III and why.
Karishma: So again, I was lacking challenges in life.
Binod: Exactly. You took another challenge in life.
Karishma: Another challenge. So I was pregnant and I had delivered, so I took a year gap in between, post level II. So for me, level III decision came when my baby was four months, to start and getting back to level III. And at that time, obviously there was a break from level II to level III, so there was a lot of revision of level II to be done, and I was-
Binod: Which actually, sorry, also reminds me that, even I tell don't take a break, go with the momentum.
Karishma: Yes, very important.
Binod: Momentum is very important. People always say, should I take a break between level I and II or II and III? I say no, for two reasons. Or three reasons, that momentum is there, the motivation is there and thirdly the memory. I called 3M formula. You remember the earlier level which is important for level II, especially level II, because it's based so much on level I. The motivation is there because you're still in study mode in a way and momentum is there because you continue studying.
Karishma: Absolutely. So the break also made me forget a lot of concepts, level I, all the way from level I. So the break was a big challenge. So I didn't clear my level III in the first attempt, which I felt was very difficult at that point of time because the whole concept was different from level II and I. And here we are now writing the answers. We are going to attend those questions more differently. In level II and I, you can manage with a gray area because you know what is closer to the answer.
Binod: You have the comfort of multiple choice, like I tell people.
Karishma: Absolutely, but you do not have that in level III. So you need to be on point, precise, completely understand what they're asking.
Binod: I think one of the biggest challenges in level III, you're staring at a blank piece of paper where there's no choice available and you just have what, 25 minutes or whatever to write some concise answers very quickly.
Karishma: Yes. And one biggest thing in level III is because you've spent so much of time studying, you think it is asking you something that you've studied and you think they're asking you something that you already answered and so you tend to start interpreting that question the way it is. That because I'd studied this, so I'm sure they are asking about this, but they are asking something else. So read the question. Very important.
Binod: So tell me what was one reason why you flunked level III the first time, and this happens to a lot of students by the way, CFA, did you underestimate level III? Because a lot of CFA students think that level II is the core of CFA, is the toughest part of CFA and once level II is done, that's it. At last, everything is over. We can move on to the rest of life and level III is like, what do you call, walk in the park. Was there any complacency on your part?
Karishma: No, I just had too much on my platter. I just felt I had too much on my platter because I had a four month old baby at that time and I had to juggle between work, being a mum and I was an active single parent at that time. My husband was not living with me. He was living in Abu Dhabi and-
Binod: I thought you said he was divorced, he's not living with you.
Karishma: No, not yet.
Binod: Luckily CFA did not lead to divorce.
Karishma: Lead to a divorce, yeah.
Binod: Divorce, exactly.
Karishma: Yeah, absolutely. I had the comfort of him being on the weekend, so I went all out on weekends but during the week when I had-
Binod: You were alone.
Karishma: Yes. I had to get to work, I had to ensure that I put my baby somewhere that he's taken care of and get to classes or get to studying. So it was challenging.
Binod: So the morning session of the exam on level III, the first time you wrote it, was it tough? Did you manage to complete all the questions? Did you leave some questions on the table? What do you remember?
Karishma: I remember completing the paper. So I think that's why I probably didn't clear because I think I went too fast.
Binod: That's interesting.
Karishma: I probably went too fast. When I say went too fast, I may have not read the questions properly. So the moment you start the paper, it's like a race you have to just run through. And probably understanding the questions, what exactly they were asking, that was lacking in the race of finishing the paper. So I think a lot of these small factors are very important.
Binod: In the first time, how did you find item set part? Was it easy for you? The PM session of the exam?
Karishma: So level III, both the times when I attempted, I felt that you don't really know how you're level III morning paper goes because you feel you've done it right, because you've put the answers right because you don't know. It's not like I can discuss it with a fellow and say it's A or B, but it is your answer. Or unless you have topics like behavioral where you can just identify the bias. So topics like this, you can easily identify if your answers are correct. In both the morning papers, my level III first attempt and the second, I completed my paper for sure. But in level III, the second time I was more focused and understanding. So picking up where they want to do, what kind of answers they are looking for. That came with a lot of practice.
Binod: So item sets were easier for you compared to the essays? The afternoon item sets, level III?
Karishma: Item sets, yes.
Binod: Were easier.
Karishma: Were much easier in fact because you've done that in level I and level II. So it was not a walk in the park because obviously the levels are more harder, but it was definitely easier than the morning if I were to go back.
Binod: So again, going back to damage control in level III. So what are three things or two things you did in level III differently the second time around that helped because you nailed it the second time, right?
Karishma: Yeah, I nailed it in the second time because obviously my son had grown up a little. Six months.
Binod: Makes a difference.
Karishma: Your own, yeah?
Binod: Yes.
Karishma: And scheduling was very important for me. For me, using the evening timing very well and using the weekends to the most. And what was important is using my free time at work. So sometimes I would use my break hours and all just to focus and read a little bit. And when you're doing the second time around, it's relatively definitely... It's easier.
Binod: So did you use a curriculum this time more than the first time on level III?
Karishma: Always. So level II onwards, I started thinking that curriculum is where I wanted because that makes me more clearer in the concept. So curriculum, very important; the questions of the curriculum, the examples of the curriculum. I've always found that better and understood the language better in the curriculum. I feel it's very close to the exam. So at least again, if I think people don't have the time, they should focus on the bigger topics from the curriculum. Very important.
Binod: So interesting journey overall. And you learned a lot about that, is it? And we'll come to that part, what have you learned in CFA, in career and of course in life, but before that CFA, right now of course you're a wealth advisor, you work in wealth management. How does CFA exactly help you at work? Does it even have any benefit for you and how?
Karishma: Well overall you are much better in facing challenges. I think your personality develops in a certain way when you do difficult exams like these. So I think it helps in identifying opportunities and problem solving, especially in current market. It's really tough in the current market. So when we meet clients, we can understand what they're going through. Be it in terms of their payments or in terms of their business, financial markets around the world, we understand. So I think that it really helps because you're conceptually stronger and you know, and you understand what's going on. You stand out in terms of your communication level and how you give advice on your portfolios and how you learn to diversify them. And most of the wealth managers, I feel, look at investment in isolation but this... We used to have a huge topic about looking at things in a holistic-
Binod: In a holistic way.
Karishma: Holistic way. So I need to look at your entire network to understand what it is that should fit in your portfolio. I think CFA has helped me a lot in that.
Binod: What you call asset integration, rather asset segregation, yeah?
Karishma: Yes, absolutely.
Binod: A portfolio approach towards things rather than looking at individual assets. So has it impressed you, have you walked into the meeting with a client or potential employer and he sees CFA and he goes, "Whoa, okay, that's interesting," or... Has that happened?
Karishma: Has happened a couple of times. I've had a few clients who've, "Oh, you're a CFA." It's really nice, you feel good, you feel confident. But there are times that clients and I've had conversations going on to from this corner of the world to this corner of the world because he's been so impressed that I was a CFA charter holder. And many at times it leads to many conversations and you just enjoy it. You just enjoy that people look at you in that light. People look at you with that respect.
Binod: So we have talked about your life as a student, we have talked about your life as a wealth manager in a career. Let's talk about career itself because I want to focus on this part about women in finance. Now as you know women are disproportionately represented in finance and CFA program as well, there are very few analysts, women analysts, compared to men or CFOs or CIOs. I think this is because of certain misconceptions about women in finance. You're probably familiar with those, but I want to hear from you, what do you think are the challenges or misconceptions that you have personally experienced as a woman in finance?
Karishma: So women are considered emotional. I've had this situation that they feel, the organizations or managers feel that she's not going to be able to manage a difficult situation because she's emotional and her decision making capability will be compromised-
Binod: Impaired.
Karishma: Or impaired and cannot handle challenges. And there is a misconception again about the restricted working hours because she's a mum and she has to go home and she has family planning to do and a lot of-
Binod: So she can't devote as much time as her male counterparts to work-
Karishma: To work, yeah.
Binod: And after work or whatever, yeah.
Karishma: Yeah. And I feel that there is also a misconception about the caliber and the intellectual capability. There's always an understanding that a man could just do things better because again, he's not emotional. Secondly, he would know a lot about current affairs, which I don't completely agree to. Because I'm in the field of meeting a lot of clients, I meet businessmen, I work in business banking. So there is an understanding that you can go and do a lot, talk a lot about current affairs and understanding what's going on in the UAE market, only a man could do that. That I think is not completely true.
Binod: So a lot of interesting misconceptions which still exist funnily enough, even in this year 2019, which must have been a challenge for you of course when you're trying to get promotions or trying to switch careers or when you go to interview with a potential employer. So I really appreciate what women go through in a finance career. But again, let's talk about again from your aspect another challenge that you have faced. And I'm sure a few listeners might be interested in that, as a working mum, because although when you did level I you are not married, but when you did level II, you have married and when you did three level III, you were married and had a child as well. So how did you balance these three things?
Binod: When I say three things, I'm talking about the most important things in life, starting, of course, with the most important thing, which is CFA, work and family. So studies, work and family. How do you juggle these three balls? How do you keep all this in the air, and because all three are important? You can't let work collapse because you get fired. You can't let family collapse because you might get divorced or your son might turn against you when he grows up, and you don't want to drop the CFA ball because you could flunk. So how did you pull it off?
Karishma: So I think what is important is time management. Very important. I think about giving time to everything, qualitative time. Yes, I did miss out a lot. Well, while I was studying, I couldn't take him to the garden, I couldn't spend a lot of movie time with family and things like that. But I think those are the choices I made. And again, these are smaller battles to win the war. So there are a few decisions I made in terms of deciding about quality time and deciding as to what battles I want to choose as a homemaker and things like that.
Karishma: And luckily we live in UAE where help is available. Your basic food and things can be taken care of. So yes, I approached help. I wouldn't shy of saying that I approached help. I used where I could manage and supporting partner. My partner was really supportive. For any challenge that I picked up then or even today, he's really supportive. He says, go for it.
Binod: I must talk to Ajay because I know your husband Ajay well as well, so I need to talk to him and find out exactly what has he gone through because now I'm only listening to your side of the story and you seem to have gone through a lot, but I'm sure he has also to tell as well. Probably I should invite him on a separate podcast interview exactly.
Karishma: The partners of CFA
Binod: Exactly, the partners of CFA.com or some kind of challenge. So basic time management, prioritization and seeking help, having a supporting-
Karishma: Seeking help absolutely.
Binod: Having a supporting partners also helps a lot. And of course, managing your daily work schedule. Very important. So interesting part, but let's go to another part which we never talked about. Not about your studies or college or CFA or career or being a mom. Something which I found out recently when you send me a WhatsApp message a few weeks ago of you having run a midnight half marathon in.
Karishma: Budapest.
Binod: Budapest, which for our listeners is in Eastern Europe, is Hungary. And this is a girl who I know for the last 10 years, who was a smoker, not a heavy one she says, but that probably means 10 packets a day, I don't know, who couldn't run through two kilometers. And then she suddenly sends me this message on one night saying, "Hey, I've just finished a two hour 20 minute half marathon at midnight in the city as part of a half marathon competition." I'm like, "What's happening here?" So tell me what started the fitness journey.
Karishma: So like I said, I was a casual smoker okay, so I could-
Binod: I don't know what that means but let's move on.
Karishma: The first time I went running was again a one casual morning. I decided to go for a quick run and I realized that in about one or two kilometers, my heart almost came in my mouth. So I couldn't run. I couldn't run. I'm not genetically blessed with genes of fitness, so I had to work a little bit. So I realized that it's time to work. I'm only 29, at that time I was only 29 and I decided that I'm not going to go very long if I continue this way. So my fitness journey started somewhere there.
Binod: But hold on before you go forward, every journey has a reason. There's a trigger. There's something or someone that pushed you. So what exactly happened?
Karishma: So I met a couple of runners at that point of time because when I started my running journey, I met a couple of runners and I had a couple of people at my workplace who were senior runners, that's what they call themselves.
Binod: Okay, interesting.
Karishma: It's interesting, right? So there's this colleague of mine, I happened to speak to him and he had just finished his Berlin marathon and apparently it was his PB. PB means personal best. And he did a great job and apparently it was his fifth marathon and I was inspired. I said, "Why would anybody do that? Why would anybody run 42 kilometers and try to better it every time." So I got inspired by that and then I wanted to discover it. I wanted to see what more I can do with this. Obviously challenging. It is challenging, and I started linking this with... I can link this with CFA. It requires a lot of discipline, persistence and regular work, regular hard work, so this is what I-
Binod: So are you saying effectively that by doing CFA, actually maybe unconsciously, probably helped you in this six and a half marathon journey? You never know.
Karishma: Absolutely. I think so. Because you're mentally there, and so what was important is not... I was in a comfort zone. I had to discover something that I wanted to do and I found my comfort in running
Binod: Fantastic, because I keep preaching as you very well know about health and fitness to everyone and anyone who cares to listen. And I find only a fraction of people actually even plan to take up my advice. But I'm delighted that at that midnight a WhatsApp message of yours about the half marathon in Budapest. So what's the next goal in fitness? What are you going to do? Is that a full marathon? What else?
Karishma: Hopefully a full marathon next year.
Binod: Okay, great.
Karishma: So yes, I'm training for it.
Binod: Fantastic. So now we've almost come to the end of this very interesting interview, almost, of a narrative of your journey. And you've gone through a lot in terms of, of course, the studies part, the CFA part, the failure in CFA, switching jobs from insurance where you were a long time ago to going to wealth management, fitness journey, which you started recently. So you learned a lot. You're matured. So what are the three top lessons briefly that you learned in life and career and how did that happen?
Karishma: So I linked this to a bit of my running, when I was running my recent half marathon, yes. And I was at about a start, at the sixth kilometer, I was running and I happened to see this group of runners who were led by this one with the flag. I didn't know what that flag meant, but I looked at those runners. This is while I'm running. I looked, they were all visually challenged and they were all running in the night. And that moment I realized that, what am I complaining about? If they can, I can. I have a pair of legs. They do. You just have to get there and start running. So this is what I learned, that you can't complain about anything. You have a lot more than you think.
Binod: So the first lesson is don't complain.
Karishma: Don't complain.
Binod: Yeah, I agree with you.
Karishma: And the second lesson that I could say is failure. I've been a good student from all my school college levels, again, Dean's list and all that and I never experienced failure. So obviously, they're two different things. Classroom studying in school is different from CFA, but I had never failed. So it was number one, mentally challenging to deal with it, to embrace it, to accept failure. And obviously, you have to work on it mentally before you actually start executing a new plan. So that was one very important lesson that it's okay.
Binod: I still remember, sorry to interrupt, I still remember the message you sent me after you failed I think level II or level III the first time. I remember this was like 24 hours or 48 hours after the results had come out, when normally people are in a state of shock or disappointment, and you were quite calm about it. And you were saying, you know what, this happens in life, I deal with it and I intend to move on. I was quite impressed even at that point, if you remember the exchange. And I was thinking, she's quite unique because people don't normally react to failure after studying for so long in such an important exam. So second lesson, very important, failure. Be resilient.
Karishma: Absolutely. It teaches you a lot. It teaches you a lot more than just passing, by the way.
Binod: I always say that failure is delay is not defeat. It's just delayed your, what do you call it, final destination. But it's not a full stop, it's a comma. And what else?
Karishma: So the same thing, again, dealing with rejections. So my work also involves a lot of it, so I can understand that. What is important in your career as well, like you have to be out of comfort zone. So hungry, you have to be hungry for new things, new challenges, new opportunities. There are people we come across in our daily lives who are at that position for years or in that role for years. You wonder, are they settled or are they comfortable?
Binod: Yeah, same thing. So I really wonder, people are there for like 25 years in the same position, no promotion, same job, same company. And I think, holy crap, how do they-
Karishma: It limits your ability to think of new things and I think being hungry for better, be it career or be it personal life, just teaches you new things. You just pick up new things in life. And I think this is what my entire CFA, running journey has been about; new things, look for new goals, new personal bests.
Binod: So three lessons in life would be, one is don't complain, as in every breathing is a blessing, what would I be complaining about really? Second is failure is important. You don't have to fail. But if you do fail, taking the right spirit, learn to embrace the downfall. It helps you in life and career. And last but not the least, be hungry and push yourself outside your comfort zone like you have done in both your career and studies and personal life and fitness as well. fantastic. Thank you so much Karishma for being a guest on today's interview. It's been a great journey, a great interview as well because we have known each other for quite a long time and I'm discovering more and more facets about you as well as time goes on. Thank you so much and wish you a great career and hoping that you achieve a PB in the marathon or marathons and other... It's part of your fitness journey going forward, yeah?
Karishma: Yes, absolutely.
Binod: Thank you so much.
[Tune]
Binod: This podcast is brought to you by The Real Finance Mentor. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you found it insightful and inspirational. If you did enjoy this episode, please drop us a review and spread the word and be sure to check out more exclusive content on therealfinancementor.com and my LinkedIn profile, which is Binod Shankar CFA. Let's keep in touch. Just add your name to the mailing list on therealfinancementor.com and we'll tell you about new episodes plus book reviews, upcoming events and blogs. Till the next time, onwards and upwards.
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Hope you liked our first episode with Karishma. Tell us your thoughts and questions by commenting below. Don’t miss out on our next episode with Mira Raley (listen here). Stay tuned for many more episodes and blog posts coming soon!